7 31 Apr 25 1962 Talk with Dep Secy Defense Roswell Gilpatrick with Roberts and Marder said he has a feeling in his binns bones that this round of testing and the expected Soviet round will be the last This is a subjective feeling on his part Kennedy had such a difficult time bringing himself to agree to the series with a better case than he will ever be able to make again and the alternative of an endless spiral is so grim that feels this must come to a halt Test series will run 2 to 3 months no hard fixed time It will take months to extrapolate results but this does not mean negotiations cannot go on was principal Pentagon figure in working out plans for recent disarmament outline It was hard for military to swallow Believes that Disarmament Agency from what he sees of top xx echelon is working for a positive disarmament line contrary to other reports we have heard Sees no prospect of patching up differences with de Gaulle or forseeable de Gaulle successors on French nuclear-sharing demand French general was recently in with a shopping list but they want just what we don't want to give them Doesn't even see anything possible in peripheral hardware that we could give them for it is all nuclear-linked Also Jt Congr ssional Cttee is adamantly opposed Basic issue from White House standpoint is anti-proliferation of weapons Our concept runs just counter to what French want President McNamara and himself want to ull nuclears out of Europe rather than put more in Also thinking in terms of p0331b1e quid pro quo arrangement with Russians As our weaponry develops that in itself p - H In principle we could reach point in next few years when our nuclear capacity could be outside European land mass at sea from home bases etc Recognizes this is heresy from military standpoint Maybe arrangement possible with ussians not for Repacki-type disengagement but limitation of forces in Europe in effect de-nuclearizing forward forces In addition to tension-easing argument Kennedy is not happy about present nuclear-use command structure Manuals around Pentagon now bases based on thesis that tactical nuclear weapons just like any other weapon and can be furnished virtually down to platoon level for some weapons disagreed that you can fire off tacticalh nuclearsx and avoid escalation into nuclear war - We do have basic understanding with West Germans that their forces in NATO will not be left at military disadvantage compared to our forces in weapons equipment Suggested that way out of this not to put more nuclear capable weapons into German hands with us retaining physical control of mark warheads but to pull our-nuclears out of our own forward units Said not too many there now but will be in next in few years so decision should be made in interim said if deal with Russians was possible to mutually bar nuclear weapons from ground units perhaps by 1963-64 we could even pull present ix IRBMS out of Italy Turkey and elsewhere Gilpatrick- 2 said nothing sensational in sight for NATO's Athens meeting on nuclears we will talk about providing more information on what we have where in NATO and information on targeting and also present guide lines for agreement on use of nuclears But said as he has said before that none of this is any basic change Said McNamara going with Rusk to London then Athens--and deliberately skipping Paris--then on to Vietnam said command structure of Vietnam operation is badly overloaded implied will swing as axe on it if he can said outlook in Vietnam is wholly uncertain Said he can find out more about what goes on there by reading press than he can from'going through layers and layers of reports from different commands He can't tell whether we are gaining ground or losing it assumes truth is that situation is in dangling state Cannot see what end of the road will be questions mi whether American public realizes what a long rm uncertain road it will be Marder                     National Security Archive    Suite 701  Gelman Library  The George Washington University    2130 H Street  NW  Washington  D C  20037    Phone  202 994‐7000  Fax  202 994‐7005  nsarchiv@gwu edu