Au- mad - r 1 LKIJXSSIFIEI -A WI g gp i 5 i 1 TELCON Mr Murray Marder Wash Kissinger 4 36 December 19 1972 Yes Murray Henry m- Not that your goddamn paper deserves a return call Ah you mean the editorial or me or what The editorial No you've been 80% rational But for a newspaper that's been accusing us of not showing enough goodwill now to accuse us of naivety is almost more than one's morality can stand But go ahead you're not responsible for the editorial What I wanted to say was we've had as you know the sayings of Xuan Thuy today Which is a pack of lies Right You know he said we asked for 126 changes Yes And you see the reason I was calling Henry was Did he say we asked for 126 on the last day On the last day yes Which seem to -- No it was not consistent with anything else we've had here Murrathe did not ask forgone single change the last day Not for one comma change the last day The difficulty here was we asked at the press office -- Well I'm telling you that is a pack of lies You know it's not inaccurate it's a blatant bold faced lie You know it's such an outrageous lie it hasn't even a smidgen -- we didn't ask for a comma change on the last day Right I was looking back on a cepy here to try to see from Randle's statement if there is a mistake in here that is being made in the translation of Xuan Thuy's remarks We didn't ask for 126 changes any time This is what I wanted to get at because the press office response was it's untrue that Kissinger asked for 126 changes But we said well we at I A I rim gimp 5- i 1 3 i TELCON 2 Murray Marder Mr Kissinger 4 26 p December 19 1972 con-t d thought it was too much because that leaves the question Wellanything or was it The last day we asked for none whatever You know I don't know how the sons-of-bitches are counting they might during the course of 15 days if they count every word that was ever suggested in these discussions they might amount to something I don't know We did not there were never more than 8 points seriously at issue at any time during these 15 days All of this is off-the-record Well I wanted to get through here with you and see if there's not some way to use No because I'm not supposed to be talking to you As you well know No I didn't know that you weren't supposed to be talking to me But - at any rate what I was trying to look at here was to try to figure out some plausible way of dealing with a factual allegation Well just say Administration officials made it clear that not a single change was asked for on the last day Right Now can I get into the question of where the reader says well is that supposed to mean that 126 were asked on There were never 126 changes asked for at any time There were only 4 problems dis cussed the whole last week It does look that what he is talking about is something that recurred in a number of places and as you say the question is what is he counting up As you said there were 4 issues the last week Is he counting up protocol understandings so forth are recurr-- But the protocols we never got until the last night Right You know if they counted every word in the protocols we gave them I don't know whether they would amount to but that would be more than 126 But those arerit changes There weren t any when we submitted them Right So let's see he says here no less than 126 changes in the accord drafted in October and most of the 126 amendments that he's addressed were attempts to impose changes of substance which would have violated the fundamental rights of the people of Vietnam at r A zum olug gpj H i I i i TELCON 3 Murray Marder Mr Kissinger 4 26 December 19 1972 K 3 But that's total unadulterated crap I I I And as you can see from the sequence of the way the agencies are Look I can show you in the transcript that on Saturday night Le Duc The said to me there s only one issue left and all the rest is agreed on I mean it doesn't make any difference what may have gone before but there wasn't anything like a hundred and twenty-six changes that was ever discussed All right Now when you left the reporters hanging with this unquestioned looking at the various versions of the copy as to whether it was one point that was recurring in multiple places or Murray it is a lie You guys can analyze it as long as you -- until you're green in the face Which I'm not trying to do obviously because this is the kind of thing you get a sweeping accusation from somebody of 126 changes The major issue that was discussed occurred in one place and did not recur through the documant Um-humm It's just not true You know it may be hard to accept it The U S Government 'may be telling the truth and Hanoi may be lying but it s just barely conceivable No the question here was just simply the way he is slinging the 126 around it was obvious to anybody following this that there are not 126 changes probably in the entire agreement in any substantive form and he has gone on to say tha -- Look can anybody really believe that having negotiated the Berlin agreement the Shanghai Communique the SALT agreement that one could be so wrong at the end of Gctober as to think that 126 issues could be settled in three or four days No I would think absolutely not 1 r1 L1H nr 4 ultimatum EELZBI TELCON - 4 Murray Marder Mr Kissinger 4 26 Decamber 19 1972 K Or isn't it more likely that we raised exactly the issues that I mentioned at the end of October Issues on the assumption of a decision to settle are easy And on the assumption of a decision not to settle become insoluble Yeah yes I would have no problem withthat and I assure you the record will sustain this It does seem to me Henry that what we're seeing here from all the capitals are holding statements Waiting for a check on the Peking statement m- I didn't see that What were they saying The only thing in it really and it's in indirect form it's Oh is that the one that took on Laird No no this is something that came out this afternoon Tung Pi-wu and ChOu Ens-lai it's in a very indirect thing It's a statement in support of the 12th anniversary of the founding of the NLF but in it the only thing that is striking anybody's eye and this requires a theological analysis by the on the verbage is in the past 12 years the NLF waits protracted abdominal struggles against the U S aggressors and their running dogs in one splendid victory So it's an oblique thing The only thing that strikes anybody's is that formulation of running dogs from a semantic standpoint I don't think it's probably been used since sometime before your initial trip to China Yeah As I say it's in an oblique form here I always wanted to know what it is about running dogs that they don't like And frankly what I can remember at this point is I think the more direct accusation is that the United States Imperialists are running dogs This seems to be adight semantic variation here - the U S aggressors and their running dogs At any rate that is the only thing that appears and I imagine you've seen the TASS statement which to me is a holding statement That's what it looks like we I - mt Lt pr i 1 i 1 TE LCON C Murray Marder Mr Kissinger 4 26 December 19 1972 3 My own limited ability is that it's probably going to be several days - before anything jells here if then How was your feeling about the Sine-Soviet thing That's my impression What is not clear probability of them dumping everything into the record That would mean a break and everything if they would go that far They wouldn't do that they wouldn't look too good I would think there is a limit The point is that they probably do not want to break off the negotiations but want to register some great indigination and dismay and generate whatever support pressures from China and Mos cow to support them here I think that's right Murray I ve got to run but will you write this please by keeping White House oraanybody else out of it All right but I must use something -- Administration sources said the charge of 12 6 has no foundation whatsoever that right hat there were no such presentation on the last day and that at no time were there ever 126 -- Or anything remotely like it Or anything remotely like it That is essentially what I needed Henry You know don't leave the impression that maybe it was 98 This is why I called you because the White House thing left that hanging Hell it wasn't anything like 10 were ever seriously discussed I mean in fact only 10 things that ight There may be a lot of things but all of this is basically irrelevant because all of those issues have in fact practically been settled Right right Just one brief thing the timing discernible at all on any next move on their part BELASSIFIEITELCON - 6 Murray Marder Mr Kissinger 4 26 p 111 December 19 1972 I have no estimate on that Umnhunun Okay Murray Thank you Henry L ight Tell 11 that I deeply appreciated his editorial I will It made me feel that all the time I had spent with him was I will tell him that Good Thanks Henry                     National Security Archive    Suite 701  Gelman Library  The George Washington University    2130 H Street  NW  Washington  D C  20037    Phone  202 994‐7000  Fax  202 994‐7005  nsarchiv@gwu edu