DECLA swlnu II n3 t I I L- SECRET 18382 WW DEPARTMENT OF STATE I I I Memorandum of Conversa on Tumm mm 21 my Ea Iaiy'9 m Framidmntis ffiee Privatm mmvarsatiamm the mm ia t might'a memtimg SUBJECT and E n aila m Mammy SEW aim-mm mums PARTICIPANTS - Erasidmmt mnnm y Mr Simmer Era 1311mm COPIES TO I The that'he falt thy mast impartant thing m bmt him an be rammed mt thy mean time was that they shmuld hm ms lmmiblm ms pmsmihlm - mm F msidmmt mgrme Em that the gums-2 1mm mf mamas Emilia is the key imam and this m wmid 1m wt in as make detail mm ymsaible He felt 21mm lm mm mmcm mf the 29mm myublic and the yawn mf be helpful in wmtkimg mt ml mammary datmils em th-iz q-mm-stim grim am the meeting 6f meign Mimismrm in i arim Tam hansmliar ma a the that aha pmaylm mi Earlin had gruwn mvmxiy awing tn the gamma nitmatiau um ar which thmy had hmen living far 39 lang If the fxnal mi with Savimtm made liymng cmmditi anfmr y mpim mf with mmimtemamem sf their frmm mm they tam 353 amt fem may diffieuittas frem aida mm mama-at them indimate that max-m mm matter whimh hm wet-21w like ta aw-as mm aha Eh My at 1 11 13 by Walter in mm morning s paper mad mama whether the Ehmmemil had at ehamym rmad it hm artieim state that ymmpim'baym came ta real-1m my my chat is has ham immsiblm fear him East by gain the mumifimtim mi Sammy the Emma mi Emmi mm Swiat Emma mum always mama to mmintaim Emmi Emmany mm away-ate entity This Hamid 05 1254 3 61 GPO 90399 DECL LAbblM Lu a 'waald puwar pasit1an and 3a Liggmnaustated would aause the Saviet-Unicn ta exereiaa an maintain graat grasaure on Fadaral_ -$erman Eavarnmant ta disagsaa1ate 1tse1 29m th NATO Allianea and ta barn manima its palicies with chaga af th Eaviet Unian fa aha pufp a res gaining rsuaifiaatinn tharaby Far instanca by fallawing a aai1 y 5f nautr 1ity Ear th ultimata purpasa af vauld help the Saviat U ian in tha gaming dacada ta aiia ate'her further and urthar from tha H131 and ta draw h r Ea Raga 'This was L1pymanaa viaw and the Eraaiden wanted the Shaneallaria apiniau an it Th3 Ghancellar atatad that he h d at read tha artiela hat that ha 15 fgmiliar with Lippmanhk Ea cauid twaali tha days whan ha usa ta read Mr Liggman a artielas 11a at axeited abauz tham Qua ay ha had apakan ta Mr McCley abeut thia wh wax than in Egan aad tha lattar had taid him _net 5 worry abeut Ligpmanls pra hacias th y always prevad false Tha Channallar wanta ta assura aha Erasidan t that he sharad Ha619y a avalu tian and 111 mereuvar that the a1t1e1e in teday a papa wax utter nn-n3anse Tha Brasidaat rapliad that hm had ha the tn-diacusn Lipymann 'with Mr Mc iey snrlinr taday and Er McElay h d referrad ta a Lippmann quatatian af in-whiah he had t t d that Raesavalt wauid net be raw aiacted a samething w that aart of caurse 'h had begn pravad and since that time_Mr Me lay aw 10mger beliavad in Lippmanis prophaciaa The Ereaidant addad that Mr Lippm mnmight at sama tima garhnpa have writtan samathiug abauc-Hrg Ma lay uhich aha Iattar had 11k d1 Tha Changellar ragliad that ha wnu wagar his hand that L1ypmanis prephacy was fala _ j' The raaidant than-tria ta gat Chaacellar'a qaite asida gfrum the Lippmannart1gle ta tha possibil1ty of Garman with tha avia Huian far the purpasa a rsunificatian and the degraa 6f pull tha Saviet Untaa might ha abla ta axert Waatern Garmany in this raspe t The nanceilar atat d that ha was aanvinnad aha raaid nt nead hava na Eaars af $ny such eventuakity at peskibility millian Washarn Garmaas did a0 w nu ta beeama analavad mar d1 thay want tm 301R tha 16 m11116n East Garmans in alsuary They asirad rea am Of this tha Chancellar wan abaalutaly sure I Tha Eraaident then asked tha Ghanaatlnr whether thia maant that_eend1 t1nns wera d1ff rent now than thay had haen an the tima $1 the apalle Tram ty 0 Tha' han allar AuthoriWNqum5j J - I 7 ng $319- The atatad amphatieally that thay veru ammplately'differant He-cmntinue 15 5 aallapse theta might hav be$n some suah thoughts in tha m1nda af-Enmm Eu aha asuabliahmeat af tha Ghangallarts garty the b13ga t garty in armaa g had greeisaly gar tha parpasa a aveiding Saviag alavary Tha Chantaller ait absalutaly sur$-that th ra was Ra anga af any r Eastar mavement in Garmany in yeara ta-cama Tha big deatsian af whethmr ta 1913 the East at tha West had baan taka 1a in vamber t that tima th a ly dissentiag alemant ha haan- nhumachar and hi Seeial Damnaratn A11 athars had saen ay t9 with the -Ev n tha trada uaienn had'agraed with'him schamaehar was a natiunglist w e had WEntad a b1 ger 5armany and ha athar aspiratians aiang thm a linea and he ha farc d his Enrty ta vaica diasent with aha deeisiaa Eakam at hat t ma Hawevar there was now me furthar uhaaee a suah advarae Sinca 19%5 the Chane ilnr atated mnr th n 3 milli n rafugges had led ta Vanuatu Germany frmm tha Savi t Ze e Th sa rafugeas ware in aha best ta spraad the ward about what can i iana in the East ma a wgra rually lika Thu Praai ant mgntianad that he and the_ hancall r had wtahad to discusa mattara-furchar and that ha theught this might besn ha ane after this afternaan diseuasians which ware d aignad ta set Earth the aamparatxve stratagic positiona af HE and tha Saviat ning Thare were aev ral ether mattara howaver whiah'he wiahed ta diacuna with tan Chantallar Ona sf thesa was the prablam- nualaar tuSting xTha us was naw angaged in analyai g aha results 6f tha Saviat tasts whiah ha tnrnad eat ta hava muah graatar military aignifiaanna Ear tha Beviata than tha Bast had ariginally anticipatad This weald ha partiaularly trug if tha Savieta had aatmnliy aehiavad pragraas in iaermasing yiald campara ta-waight In any avant the U3 is centiuuing ta analyze aha rasults and thia may wall maan that the US will h ve ta rawume nuclaar tasting aiaa Tha ttsidant had baan talkiug tn tha Britiah abeut tha passibla Iaeatiaa af the taata if rasume ant previaua testing had bagn dang in the Pacific caan at Enivatek whieh is a Trust Tarwitary 0f aura and t aeuld grnbably-hald furthar'taats thara He realiaa af aaursa that thin will axpase us ta a gra t aal at ariticiam within the BR far trust Tarritary far hia purgasa The Presi ant had therefere-appreachnd Erima Miniatar Hggmillan am aakad for permiasian ta hula tha tests at Ialand which was a British Since public apini n in Britain was vary mu h @pgasad ta tha ra nmptian 9f nuclaar testing tha Erima minister wag vary raluetant ta grant sueh parmiasian unlasa it wara absalutszy agnssuary ta raaume tes ing Eng Pr ai ant atatad that need far resuming tasting was af cautsa a m ttar f aginian and Britain and the US might wall viaw this matter differently wha Praaident keyed that within a matter a waaks 9% wanld kaaw whathar wa caul usa Christmas Inland r net If net ma wwuld hava ta ratura t9 Eniwmtak If wm resuma taauimg mm Authoritmebmgq j - a tasting tha masts wwula mam 1ikaiy agta in Marah-aad wwuld raw far savaral manths li ia-aii an wanld at wave than 16 magatans altegethar as ta the mara-thnn 1 3 m g tans aha Eaviata had axpiada Th3 statad that ha was anvin ad that th Savtats hag gan- tinued th$ir awaits test #11 duriag aha guriad af suggasa easaatian Ha fal i 'indiSPensihlg aha the $3 raaume and anntinua ta tawt alsa at alaa lug behind tha savi ta in achievema tn Tha rasgdaat agraad than it waa Quita earttia that tha aviat had aena tinn largunscale'zabata ery masts all the white stnaa thosa w ra far aha aviat Haian Em Than ha staae hawavaw that tharg was a gaint bayaad whinh one did at naad ta 3a Th r was e paint in blawing a comatry twice if yam aa blaw it up anea Tha B at thi atagm was iatareatad in smaller saata tasting far instan e ia ardar aa teat the a aet af nualaar-sxglasi ns aa radar'aad the lika Tha Channallar agread that this waa aba lutely aeaesa ry and an aatual must far the Ha had ma deuht abuum u at Eha Eraaidant raisernta hia haye ta ha abla ta was Shristmaa Island Th3 Ghanaellmr was a bit daubtfal sinea ha raaliaad that Mr aemilian 1 H ula like ta stay amt af troubla at'hama a Tha Erasidnnt u derstoad Maam 1 aaha gaaitign aspagiaily 3 viaw a the Laber Baray g stand Ha than inqaira abaat tha-thamailarts apinian an aha dasirability at aauayn erw ny a nt nuing ta adhare ta the aaiarstian that aha faderal Raguhlia raneunge axyerimwntiag with nu iaax hialagieal and-ghamieal waagana- haw di the c n 311ar faai aka t thi Tha painted mat th t ha was %ha ana-whn had ma a this declagati a' Ea had dang 9 at a amafarane in Landau at whi h mime g had said that Germany vanguacad the praduattan nf BC'waapena Th3 acca ian had bean th of Haatarn nian Aftar hm had ma a this statawgnt Mr allaa had can ug-ta him and aai th t thin denigratian was af enurua valid only as Iang as atrcamsaanees remain an ngad avgrk thal aa thn Chaneallerg said atmany had aut-un ertakan anythi g in this raspaet a3 yat Tag Eresideat axprasaad aha apiniaa hst-aa lang_ s erganiantian axisted aa prasantzy eaasuitutaa and as iang as the $3 had ita wuspana 1n estatn Gatmaay with agraemeat an haw and wata ta be usa in tha efansa af Euraga and Watt Earmany ha alt that i was haghly danirable AuthorityNN 1 1 Em - 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Shanceller aite 'th1a exampz 1a ar ar ta prava hit th ary that tha Saviata were 1191111 11 any erimw and ha warnad aha 111111111 9 ha 11111131 caraful Th1 1raaident asked whath r anyane had any 1111 haw aha man was kilzed By paisan The ghaneellor stauad 1 11 n3 031 311136 ta kaaw haw aha dead was ane - All he knaw that tha mutdarer mat aha victim _a 11111 Prasident 61 i tha' kraina an tha ste $ 61 in tha haliway af 1 33111113 Ha 611 samathing parhap an tha 11111 31 an11nj atian and tha man eellapead 111 imm diataly I 11111 1113 11 the daaears had haan 111$ 112111111131 what 111111111 Th1 Eraaida t inquired wha h the 11 13 had ra aivg mnah yahltaity The Chancaliar-rayliad aaly'daring tha p111 Eva $1 t ree days The Eraatdant than statad that he might 13k 11191 allen far a tapas an ths- c131 Than he askad whethar tha Chann 1 161 was mat afraid of a Saviat attamgt an his Iii-e 1' The Chamaallar smited an 311d that ha was nut 11 impartamt as tha Freaidant af aha Eat'ha agread tha vai ts vauld 19 15311 ha 11 11 away with him 11 a anttar 11 1111 a numbar 51 11111911 ha baan ma a an hie 1111 whiah had bean 1 11 111311 and 1 1 had net baam givan mueh gablicity Rauavar tha-Ghanaeliax 111 11 sameana raalgg-wantsd ta kiil xemaana thay Hauld find a may of anacae ingai 31 than amilingly camw tinha that Khrushehav had nan big a battlas af Saviat shampagn g whieh had all bean p1urad aut _ Th1 111111111 th1n made tha remark' that Khrushshav ha tald h1m-that Raasia had new-disgavarad a'way ef-mnking vadka an 31 na nral gas _ cbaacellar rapliad that praferra ta drink In a mare serious vain the Ewasidan than gaintedaaut that aha 12115 ardinnry thing abaut Khrushehav is his ta f al ha has in batter than Na-mattar wh t gnu 1115 him ha 5 ma a 51111 1 - 3 5353 DECLASSHHEU Authority 7 cames up with Eam$thing battar HE baa a u ky eam a1aive n ad far'raeagQ niticn Th yrssidant di n t knaw whathar this w s a personal at natianal charaetariati In raply aha Chanceilar ma a r f runee za-a haak'which raeently appeared in Garmany by a man calle Mahnart Yha beak 13 antitlad Tha Saviat Man It Shawa how by caraful precasaassaf moatral and ariantatian aha Saviat Unien has in farming he mantality and regatians vi tha yaegla t9 au h an extant that there aw is what might ba-zermad a Saviat man Whn'b liQVEH that evarything he hag is better than what the athars have The Chaneellar paintad nut that'a similar thing was achiavad by th Kazis in thair day with rafaranea ta part f-tha German papulatian Qua ahauid not 133a sight 6f th feet that Khruahchav ha achievad a fabuznus car ar which ta same antent had rasulted in a dggr a-af magi m nia in him aturalty -ene sh9uld net believm varythi g KhrushchaV'elaims as an-examgle aha Ghancallar reealled haw Khruahebav bald him that the'wEatern world 13-definita1y deame y 1 and hanaellmr had laughad'i his faca 1% ha agrat Khrushahav was a j g paanliar mixtur 'The Prasidant intarjeatad at this going a mixtura a infarieriuy and aupariarity Than tha Praai ent aakad for the aginien an haw munh preasura thara is in to h ng aha han 115r a stand the manuu f etura of nuc1 ar waapens Ehe-Chanaaliar stata that theta wan name Thu next nan minutas 9r 3% war stxiakan frag tha tecard at the Brasiw dant a - Coming back ta aha iaaunaien af pasnib1 Ger$an pressar mm praduea nuclear waapans the Channallur nul ef smma ramarka tha German Eefansa Hini$tar had ma a ta h1m Tha Germans hava been tald rapeata ly by the ES that thara gra nuelaar'wmr ha s in G rmany but thay hava baan sh a mane Tha Frenah danit want any but the Germans are randy ta raeaiva them and have fulfille the requ1ramen a fur ataraga ate in that annectian Th Chanaallar hapad that tha rasident vauld maka elaar ta the Defansa Miniatgr what alang ahasa linaa i3 a aa11y available in Weatarn Garm ny e Hauld greatly appraaiate thi5 it wnuld graatly atrangthan hm hand to Raw Tha that ha amuld makn aura that Mr e amara W ul tell the Chancellar and Mr Eurauaa'what was $V 11 bl in Haatern Germany at tha gresant timu and what further intentians thara ware aleng thesa linas Thu Chanceilmr SEQRET DECLASSIFIEU - - Ammoriwm iqi The Ehanealxar than indiaatad that inigtar Etrauss had tald him that Israei wautd saon gat aha bama Th Erasidant azatad that ha knew that tarsal ha m e pragraas and baa aatabiiahad a muclaar tentar with aha'hexp af Fr naa Thi aentar haa sa jaata ta i apsetian by Ewe m ri nu aciaatists an aha 63 waald insist an further pariadia inspaetiana Hhila tha Eraai ent thaught that it might be passihln tn maka in tha Iaraai centar ha falt it-wnul g and thara wafa dafiaita limitatians a -what aauld be dan$ th$ra Bat ef caursa thara wan an amubt Isrugl wag anguir ng kn w-haw in this mattar The rust 9f the tr ns ript waa atriakaa at aha yrenideutl requast tter ta'gaing 0 lua h aha Erasi nt lavitad aha Ghancait r an acne ugsgeiru tm-maat Hrs K ana ys swag-T                     National Security Archive    Suite 701  Gelman Library  The George Washington University    2130 H Street  NW  Washington  D C  20037    Phone  202 994‐7000  Fax  202 994‐7005  nsarchiv@gwu edu