ACDA IR Akalovsky staii 315797 Approved by white House-lO 2l 63 Approved by DEPARTFENT OF STATE 10 16 63 MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT Nonndissemination and MLF DATE October 10 1963 4 00 p m PARTICIPANTS US The President PLACE White House The Secretary Ambassador Thompson Assistant Secretary Tyler Mr- Akalovsky USSR Minister Gromyko Deputy Foreign Minister Semenov Ambassador Dobrynin Hr Sukhodrev Foreign Ministry COPIES T0 White House - Mr -Bundy Mr Rostow Amsmbassy Mcscow Amb Kohler Amb Thompson EUR Mr Tyler 2 - Mr Johnson SMF Amb Merchant Mr Hughes PARIS for USRO CIA - Mr McCone Mr Kitchen AmEmbassy amt McGhee OSD -Secretary McNamara Amb Bohlen - Mr Foster Mr Gromyko then raised the question of non dissemination He sa a did not wish to repeat the Soviet views on this weapons This was good as far as it went but it was here that disagreement began The US appeared to limit the task to non dissemi nation of nuclear weapons to states whereas the USSR approached the EYES ONLY GROUP-3 Downgraded at 12-year intervals Not automatically declassified 1 EYES ONEY problem more broadly and believed that states should also not have access to nuclear weapons indirectly or through an alliance As he had told the Secretary the USSR attached importance to non dissemination but the obstacle to agreement was the US plan for a NATO multilateral force The President said that as Mr Gromyko knew we had gone to great length to'prevent dissemination This was why we had our difficulties with France Our particular concern regarding dissemination was Germany and one of the reasons for an MLF was to make it less possible for the Germans to press for nuclear weapons of their own weapons which could be used without US consent We did not believe that an MLF would create a situation worse than the one existing now In this connection the President noted that de Gaulle had talked about some nuclear force scheme but apparently Bonn preferred the US plan In any event the MLF was not in existence and some countries had reservations about it However he believed that if the MLF plan failed there would be a vacuum in which countries would seek nuclear weapons which could be used without US consent hr Gromyko wondered why a vacuum would exist if there was no MLF He asserted that if there were a universal non dissemination - agreement to which West Germany adhereed the task of non dissemina- tion would be resolved with the participation of the United States the USSR and others So he could nd3see any vacuum the problem would be resolved by a broad arrangement The Secretary commented that as'Mr Gromyko knew China was a preoccupa on 0 us If China should explode a bomb other countries ould start pressing for nuclear weapons for themselves Therefore wpuld like very much to have a non dissemination agreement iting for the outcome of the MLF plan Mr Gromyko contended that even from the US point of view a broad agreement would be better than pushing the MLF project to this problem and believed that a broad be better even from the standpoint of the US The President wondered why this was so Mr Gromyko said because all nuclear states would undertake not to give weapons or information to other states If the Chinese did not Join that would make their political situation more difficult and delicate - EYES ONLY EYES ONLY President asked when mr Gromyko thought the Chinese mould eXplode a bomb Mr Gromyko said he did not know and added that the USSR did not give anyEEing to the Chinese The President-then stressed the need for continuing efforts with regard to non-dissemination noting an MLF would take a long time EYES ONLY                     National Security Archive    Suite 701  Gelman Library  The George Washington University    2130 H Street  NW  Washington  D C  20037    Phone  202 994‐7000  Fax  202 994‐7005  nsarchiv@gwu edu