Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 1 4% 6645 TO mom NatSecAct SUBJECT EYES ONLY - DETAILS 2002 INTERROGATION SESSIONS WITH AL- RAHIM HUSAYN MUHAMMAD NASHIR ClAAct NatSecAct NatSecAct NatSecAct NatSecAct NatSecAct 0310032 DEC 02 11359 0310002 DEC '02 STAFF 3 3 Nat eCAct N atseCACt 11359 NatSecAct PRIORITY ALEC INFO DIRECTOR me ClAAct NatSecAct EYES ONLY - DETAILS OF DECEMBER 2002 INTERROGATION SESSIONS WITH AL-RAHIM HUSAYN MUHAMMAD NASHIR REF NatSecAct TEXT COMBINE COMPLETE 1- ACTION REQUIRED NONE FYI BASE WILL SUBMIT SEVEN AND EIGHT BELOW IN DRAFT INTEL DEFER TO HEADQUARTERS FOR THE OF OTHER DETAILS BELOW NatSecAct 2 SUMMARY WEBECEMBER 2002 DAY 17 0F BASE AGGRESSIVE PHASE INTERROGATIONS OF SENIOR OPERATIVE HUSAYN MUHAMMAD AKA MULLAH SUBJECT BASE Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 Approved for Release 2018 10 03 006665566 CONDUCTED ONE INTERROGATION SESSION WITH SUBJECT DURING INTERROGATION WHICH LASTED APPROXIMATELY TWO HOURS SUBJECT CONTINUED TO PROVIDE VAGUE AND OFTEN CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS DESPITE REPEATED STATEMENTS THAT ONLY IF SUBJECT PROVIDES ACCURATE COMPLETE INFORMATION NOW CAN HE HOPE TO MAKE HIS LIFE MORE BEARABLE AT THE PLACE THEY HAVE ASSURED HIM HE IS GOING NatSeCAct NatSecAct ClAAct 4 SECURITY TEAM BACKED THE HOODED AND SHACKLED SUBJECT AGAINST 1 THE WALLING PANEL WITH THE RESTRAINT OVER HIS NARROW SHOULDERS HVTI AND LINGUIST STRODE CATLIKE INTO NatSeCAct THE WELL-LIT CONFINES OF THE CELL AT 0902 HRS DEFTLY REMOVED THE BLACK HOOD WITH A SWIPE PAUSED AND A DEEP MEASURED VOICE SAID THAT SUBJECT HAVING AFTER HIS STAGED WITH HIS HULKING HEAVILY MUSCLED GUARDS THE PREVIOUS DAY - SHOULD REVEAL WHAT SUBJECT HAD DONE TO HIS GUARDS TO THEPOINT OF RAGE SUBJECT BLINKING IN THE FLUORESCENT LIGHT DID A FEW CHARACTERISTICALLY FLICKS OF HIS TONGUE REACOUIRED HIS NERVOUS TICK AND IN A FRAIL SQUEAKY VOICE REPLIED SLOWLY SHOOK HIS HEAD SIGHED PATIENTLY AND FIXED SUBJECT WITH A PIERCING GAZE PEN AND PAD AT THE READY AND EAGER THE BILINGUAL BLITZKRIEG TO BEGIN IN A MEASURED VOICE STOLD NatSeCAct SUBJECT THAT NOW SUBJECT WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING 0N MIND BEFORES WOULD ASK HIS QUESTIONS IN HIS OWN WAY NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 10 03 006665566 Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 NatSecAct NatSeCAct SEEKING To IMPRESS UPON SUBJECT THE SEVERITY OF HIS PREDICAMENT AND ELICIT MORE INFORMATION EXPLAINED TO SUBJECT WHY SUBJECT WAS ONLY MAKING THINGS HARDER ON HIMSELF GIVEN US ANYTHING BEGAN THE MINUTE YOU STOPPED TALKING ABOUT PORT RASHID YOU GIVEN US NOTHING YOU TOLD US A LITTLE ABOUT BUT 1 WE HAD TO SQUEEZE IT OUT OF YOU ESAID WRINGING HIS HANDS IN FRONT OF FACE ARE EITHER PURPOSEFULLY TRYING To NatSeCAct CONFOUND US - WHICH WORK - OR YOU ARE JUST BEING- THIS PLACE GOING IF YOU ACT THERE THE WAY BEEN HERE THEY WILL TRASH BE THERE TO HELP YOU BUT THESE - POINTED TO THE SECURITY TEAM SUBJECT WAS TOLD THAT IS NOT A JOKE AND NOT TRYING TO TRICK YOU IF YOU PROVIDE INFORMATION I WILL HELP YOU BUT IF YOU DO NOT YOU ARE HEADED FOR THE INNER RING OF HELL AS MY FRIEND TOLD YOU BEFORE SUBJECT BEGAN TO PROTEST THAT HE HAD TOLD EVERYTHING HE KNEW IN DETAIL AND WAS RUNNING AWAY FROM THE SUBJECTS BUT INTERRUPTED HIM SAYING THE WAY IT IS ACTING CONTRIVED OR UPSET WORK A BIT OUT THERE THE ONLY THING THAT WILL WORK IS MORE SUBJECT TO TALK ABOUT THE MEN IN THE PLANS AT THE PORT OF JEDDAH NatSeCAct WHICH SUBJECTHAD CONSIDERED INTERRUPTED HIM AND SAID HE DID NOT WANT SUBJECT TO TALK ABOUT RIDICULOUS IDEAS BUT TO TALK ABOUT REAL ONES SUBJECT SAID THAT HAD TOLD HIM ABOUT SURVEYING THE PORT OF JEDDAH FOR TARGETS THERE NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 - NatSeCAct NatSeOAct TOLD SUBJECT TO GET BACK TO PORT OF JEDDAH NatSeOAct NatSeOAct TO SAID FOR EMPHASIS GRABBING THE TOWEL NECK RESTRAINT PLAN OPERATIONS AGAINST MY COUNTRY AND YOU JUST SAID THIS IDEA WAS USEFUL NatSeOAct SHOUTING NOW CONTINUED WANT TO KNOW YOUR REASONS FOR SUBJECT BEGAN BABBLING AGAIN SAYING THAT HE HAD SEEN SOMEONE ONCE IN BUT THE RELATION WAS NOT DONE 31c 9 RELEASED THE TOWEL NECK RESTRAINT AND STEPPED BACK ME EXPLAIN WANT YOU To GIVE 1 INFORMATION BUT YOU DRIBBLE IT OUT BECAUSE OF THIS WE BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY ANYMORE OR ELSE WE WHAT YOU FINALLY DO SAY THIS IS YOUR OWN FAULT AND IT WILL HURT YOU THE STORY YOU JUST TOLD ME 15 FOR THESE REASONS HARD TO BELIEVE YOUR STORY IS REASONABLE - BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SO DAMNED DIFFICULT WE CANNOT BELIEVE IT WE ARE ASKING NICELY NOW BUT WE HAVE TOLD YOU THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO GO TO ANOTHER PLACE YOU PROVIDE INFORMATION AND IT IS GOING TO GET YOU HURT I HAVE TOLD YOU I WILL NEVER LIE TOYOU NatSecAct AND I AM NOT LYING TO YOU 10 ONCE SFINISHED TRANSLATING THIS WARNING TOLD SUBJECT TO TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING HE KNEW ABOUT RAMZI BIN AL-SHIBH NatSeCAct Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 NatSeCAct NatSecAct 11 WALKED AWAY AT THIS POINT AND CONVENED METRE PERSONNEL ABOUT STATEMENTS FOR A FEW MINUTES WHEN HE RETURNED TO CELL HE POINTED OUT THAT SUBJECT HAD NEVER BEFORE MENTIONED ANOTHER MEETING TO WHICH SUBJECT REPLIED BUT I WANTED NatSecAct 12 SUBJECT ASKED HIMSELF ALOUD WHAT ELSE COULD BE SAID ABOUT RAMZI BIN SUBJECT OFFERED UP THAT HE HAD ALWAYS CONSIDERED BIN AL-SHIEH TO BE REASONABLE AND CALM REPLIED WITH ANGER IN HIS VOICE THAT a NatSecAOt Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 Approved for Release 2018 10 03'006665566 NatSeCAct POINTED OUT THAT SUBJECT HAD TALKED ABOUT PLANS FOR OPERATIONS IN HORMUZ PORT RASHID A SURVEY AT - THE PORT OF JEDDAH AND AN OPERATION IN AND ASKED TO WHICH OF THESE OPERATIONS WAS RAMEI BIN AL-SHIB REFERRING DO NOT DISCUSS NatSeCAct ANY OPERATIONS WITH BIN SUBJECT SAID SUBJECT SAID THAT ONCE HE HAD STARTED PLANS FOR THE OPERATION NatSeCAct HE HAD ONLY THOUGHT OF HORMUZ TOLD TO SPEAK UP SUBJECT SAID THAT HAD SPECIFIC IN EARLY 2002 AND THAT HE HAD BECOME INCREASINGLY OCCUPPIED WITH SUBSEQUENT PLANNING FOR AN OPERATION AT PORT RASHID AND THAT HE HAD SPENT WEEK OR TWO IN SAUDI BUT HAD BEEN VERY CAREFUL NOT To TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT NatSecAct NatSeCAct NatSeCAct SUBJECT THAT HIS COMMENTS WERE CONFLICTING AND MADE NO SENSE HOW SUBJECT WAS ASKED DID HE EXPLAIN TRIPS TO SAUDI ARABIA FREE TIME AND VISITS WITH INSIGNIFICANT PEOPLE TO SEE HOW THEY WERE DOING IF BY OWN ADMISSION HE HAD BEEN CONSUMED WITH PLANNING FOR THE HORMUZ AND PORT RASHID SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ARE SAYING YOU WERE BREAKING CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO COULD HELP YOU ESAID SUBJECT SAID THAT HE HAD FREQUENTLY MET WITH MANY MEN WITHOUT Approved for Release 2018 10 03 006665566 Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 SPECIFIC REASONSTO DO SO 15 ARE A HARD MAN- TO SAID CONTRADICT YOURSELF OVER AND OVER A CHANCE FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY BE SUBJECT WAS ASKED WHAT HE KNEW ABOUT PLANS BY OR GROUPS AFFILIATED WITH THAT INVOLVED PEOPLE OR TARGETS IN NatSeCAct NatSecAct 17 TOLD SUBJECT THAT IF SUBJECT DID NOT BEGIN TO EXPLAIN THESE MATTERS IN A WAY THAT WAS TRUTHFUL AND MADE SENSE NOT BE ABLE TO HELP HIM ALMOST AS IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO MORE GOING To ASK YOU A FEW MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT JEDDAH AND I EXPECT YOU TO DO BETTER IF YOU ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT WILL SUBJECT BEGAN TO PROTEST THAT HE HAD TOLD EVERYTHING HE KNEW HIM THAT ON THE CONTRARY TIME YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH YOU MAKE YOURSELF SOUND LIKE SOME STUPID LITTLE HELPER THE LITTLE ERRAND NOBODY BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS THE CASE AND SAID SUBJECT WAS QUICKLY RUNNING OUT OF CHANCES TO HELP HIMSELF ClAAct NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 10 03 C06665566 NatSecAct Approved for Release 2018 10 03 006665566 VII- nbl 19 INTERROGATION SESSION ENDED DELIVERING THE BRIDGE THAT SUBJECT HAD FAILED TO DISCUSS THE PEOPLE OR CIRCUMSTANCES OF PLANS FOR ATTACKS IN WHICH INTERROGATORS ALREADY KNEW HE HAD BEEN INVOLVED DESPITE BEING FED INFORMATION TO PROVE THAT WE KNEW THIS WAS THE CASE SUBJECT WAS TOLD THAT WHILE OTHER DETAINEES HAD EITHER UNASHAMEDLY ADMITTED THEIR PLANS AND INTENTIONS OR HAD TOLD INTERROGATORS THAT THEY WOULD NOT TELL WHAT THEY WERE SUBJECT HAD CHOSEN TO LIE AND TO TRY AND BLAME ALL OF HIS OWN ACTIVITIES ON HIS SUPPOSED FRIENDS SUBJECT WAS ASSURED THAT INTERROGATORS WOULD DO THEIR DUTY AND THAT SUBJECT WOULD PROVIDE THE INFORMATION THEY KNEW HE HAD BUT BECAUSE OF HIS OWN CHOICES THIS WOULD HAVE TO OCCUR HARD INTERROGATION CONCLUDED AT 1105 NatSecAct END OF MESSAGE - Approved for Release 2018 10 03 006665566 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu