us Department of State Case No F-2017-13804 Doc No C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 WITE HOUSE SITUATION ROOM we 05 17 '95 07 39 NO 60024144 PAGE 3 bum thNH l 3773 'wasnworona no 20500 RELEASE IN FULL MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION DECLASSIFIED SUBJECT Meeting with Russian Political Leaders PARTICIPANTS 0 5 Participants AUTHORITY Geo my W The President tChapman Senior Reviewer Secretary Rubin Ambassador Pickering Anthony Lake Strobe Talbott Coit Blacker Notetaker Russian Participants Ruslan Aushev Boris Federov Yegor Gaydar Sergey Glazev Yekaterina Lakhova Mikhail Lapshin Yuriy Nozhikov Yegor Stroyev Grigoriy YavlinSkiy Gennadiy Zhyuganov - DATE TIME May 11 1995 AND PLACE Spaso House Moscow Following brief welcoming remarks _by Ambassador Pickering the President Opened the meeting by thanking the Russ_ian political leaders for coming and by expressing his interest in an open exchange of views ideas and experiences The President made four points in his initial comments First he had come to Moscow to commemorate the end of World War II and to take note of the contribution of the Russian people to the war effort -- a contribution that the west had never properly acknowledged Second the President stressed his determination to continue working with the new Russia and to pursue cooperation for the benefit of the American and the Russian people such cooperation the President noted has already resulted in enhanced security for both sides Third the President spoke of his interest in learning about events in Russia the trend toward greater regionalism or regional empowerment the formation of political parties and the QC Declassify on OADR UNCLASSIFIED US Department of State Case No F-2017-13804 Doc No 006698817 Date 06 25 2019 I50 us Department of State Case No Doc No 006698817 Date 05 25 2019 wwITe HOUSE strUATtou we 05 I7 '95 07 39 NO 60024 44 PAGE a impact of political and economic change on the people of Russia Regarding the latter the President noted that downward pressures on wages are making it tough to get by and that in many countries today peeple are working harder and realizing less The President spdke of his optimism about the future but admitted that this is a time of great change Fourth the President looking ahead 50 years said he anticipated a different set of global security challenges from those we confront today He drew particular attention to the threats likely to be posed by terrorists and terrorism the possible use of very small nuclear weapons and chemical and or biological agents against innocent populations and the danger of organized crime Our differences notwithstanding the President said we need to cooperate to meet these kinds of challenges especially the struggles against terrorism and organized crime Liberal reformer and likely presidential candidate Grigoriy Yavlinskiy expressed his personal pleasure at seeing the President in Moscow these days and thanked him for coming He characterized the President's remarks at Poklonnaya Gora on May 9 as moving and said the he understood the reasons for the President's visit He thanked the President for his courage in deciding to make the trip and for his support of the new Russia In saying these things Yavlinskiy made clear he was expressing the sentiments of many many Russians Coming to what he described as his main points Yavlinskiy insisted that today's Russia is in the process of creating democracy This gives rise to both-euphoria and despair neither of which is warranted Thereaisugood and bad neRussia- and it will be this way for years What we need he said are cool brains and warm hearts In Russia Yavlinskiy argued we have something like half of a press say and write what they want anddyet the waruin Chechnya -- which 80 percent of the people oppose_- goes on This is the 'l ll case in many areas he said disadvantage just a fact of life and we'd all better recognize it as anal-ahaYegor Gaydar Duma deputy and radical reformer began by noting his broad agreement with much of what Yavlinskiy had said He understood how hard it was for the President to come to Moscow for V-E Day given the war in Chechnya and-he expressedahis gratitude to the President for the decision he had made Gaydar noted that many within Russia are trying to reestablish what he termed Cold War relations between Moscow and washington and to stir up anti-American sentiments In the 0 5 there are many who feel the same way who want Russia to be the enemy This he insisted is contrary to the long-term interests of both qua - 1 UNCLASSIFIED US Department of State Case No F-2617-13804 DocNo C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 C0 6 6 98 8 1 7IFIED US Department of State Case No F-2017-13804 Doc No 00669881 Date 06 25 2019 It TE 0085 SITUATION ROW - we 05 -7 -es 07 39 no 6002 5 3 countries Stability in relations is what is really needed now and in the future Much will depend Gaydar said on the outcome of the December parliamentary elections and he expressed the hope that he and others will be in a position following the elections to overcome these negative trends Russian Communist Party Leader Gennadiy Zhyuganov described the domestic scene as very critical and outlined three possible futures for Russia a Balkan outcome in which order gives way to the kind of violence and chaos associated with the ongoing struggles in the former Yugoslavia a Colombia-type outcome in which the government both struggles against and coexists with a criminal cartel that is almost as well armed and a constitutional outcome in which scheduled elections are held and the opportunity exists to improve the situation Zhyuganov expressed the hope that the U 8 would weigh in on the side of legal elections -- without which the situation within Russia could not improve Given the combination of Russia' history favoring what he labeled a certain leftist mood and the deep post- communist depression which has left 20 million either unemployed or underemployed Zhyuganov argued for the continuing relevance of a left- flank party -- one that understands the suffering of the people and that represents their interests The Russian- Communist Party according to Zhyuganov understands the value of political pluralism as well as the needs of the working classes and the poor Whatever the outcome of _the-struggle over Russia and her future the Russian 'EommUnist Party will- continue to favor friendly relations with the Zhyuganov concluded by expressing_ his gratitude to th - President for undertaking the visit to Moscow_at this time 'f Former Finance Minister Boris Fedorov focused on five issues in his remarks First he noted that Russia' 3 long-awaited - financial stabilization seems to be at hand -- a development that appears to arouse at least as much fear as it does relief on the part of the Russian pOpulation Second he argued that separatism within Russia is on the increase which also has given rise to wide- spread popular anxiety and condern about the future Third he described without elaboration the existence of various international security problems taking particular note of plans to expand NATO and the opposition to those plans from within Russia Fourth he expressed alarm at 1 the possible cancellation of the December parliamentary elections or 2 possible vote-tampering should the elections proceed as scheduled He appealed to the President to help ensure honest and fair elections Fifth Fedorov noted that none of the 67 countries that have provided aid to Russia get mUCh credit for oat-u UNCLASSIFIED S Department of State Case No 2017-13804 DocNo C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 7IFIED US Department of State Case No F-2017o13804 Doc No 006698817 Date 06 25 2019 wt 05 17 '95 07 39 NO 1460024 44 PAGE 6 wthe woos SITUATION goo 1 their assistance implying that little of the assistance has had a visible impact and suggested some retargeting of 0 5 aid away from existing programs and toward education and retraining efforts Fedorov thanked the President for coming to Moscow volunteering the view that such a decision could not have been easy Sergey Glazev the young leader of the Democratic Party of Russia linked the future of the planet to the development of U S Russian relations which he said will be largely determined by events in Russia He accorded particular importance to RuSsia's ability to accomplish a democratic transfer of power in 1995-96 and to begin to recover economically Glazev praised FDR's New Deal and cited the lack of a comparable series of initiatives as one reason for Russia's failure to turn the carner economically What's worse according to Glazev is that Russia s economic hard times are associated with the policies of the IMF which most Russians believe is an agency of the 0 8 government Glazev proposed -- partly to counter this perception -- that a group of Nobel laureates from economics and the sciences travel to Russia to discuss the rea1 problems confronting the country and to sketch_out some possible solutions If by the end of the year nothing has changed Glazev warned the outlook for free and fair elections will be bleak given the Executive' 5 lack of accountability to either the parliament or the voting public more broadly Yuriy Nozhikov governor of Irkutsk '0b1ast thanked the President for his V-E Day visit to honor the memory of those who died fighting fascism He raised two issues The first concerned the devolution of political power from the center to the regions and on balance the positive effect this had had both- on the process of democratic development and in terms of economic in The second issue concerned economic security especially the as problem of income disparity Nozhikov expressed the view that as the gap separating rich and poor increases so too does the possibility of some kind of explosion To prevent such a crisis he urged intensified international efforts to guarantee a more equitable distribution of wealth Mikhail Lapshin chairman of the Agrarian Party of Russia began by emphasizing the importance of a multiparty system to Russia democratic development focusing in particular on the need for a political party to represent the country 5 large number of farmers In our heart of hearts Lapshin declared we 4 raw Aa Ax' UNCLASSIFIED Department of State Case No F- 2017- 13804 Doc No C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 IED US Department of State Case No F-2017-13804 Doc No C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 wm re HOUSE SITUATION noon we 05 I7 95 07 39 no 5 Russians are an agro-community He went on to argue that the key to Russia's rejuvenation its rebirth is the economic recovery of the agricultural sector Once this is underway according to Lapshin everything else will follow The Agrarian Party he concluded is well positioned to help preserve Russia during these difficult times and to carry the banner of Russia's national interest The leader of the Women of Russia faction Yekaternia Lakhova thanked the President for coming to Moscow on Day she also expressed her appreciation to Mrs Clinton for her leadership on women's issues Lakhova described the institutionalization of political parties in Russia and the holding of parliamentary elections scheduled for December as critical to the develOpment of democracy in Russia failure to follow through with elections would be a violation of the constitution The constitution is already being violated by the Executive branch according to Lakhova The violations take two forms the Executive's willful disregard of legislative prerogatives and the Executive s failure to enforce various social rights including the provision of health care and education Lakhova also criticized the government for its lack of attention to women' 5 issues and to the plight of women more generally women particularly in the work force Continue to be discriminated against in Russian society they are also often the victims of various forms of violence _especially spousal abuse Lakhova made a plea for the admission of RdSSia to a number of European institutions mentioning -by name the council of'surOpe and the European Parliament Absent Russia 5 full participation she argued these and others development of a strong and secure Europe will-never be effective She urged Russia prompt and unconditional -admi ssion to these institutions Yegor Stroyev governor of Orel Oblast noted that his constituents feel very strongly about'th3 need to preserve peace and enhance security which he attributed to his region' having lost 700 000 people during World War II Stroyev drew the President's attention to two issues He underscored the people' 5 strong commitment to reform the real questions he argued are who shall conduct these reforms and why has it taken so long to get out of the present crisis The party that can answer these two questions convincingly Stroyev insisted will lead the country out of crisis and onto the path of recovery Stroyev also made the point that Russians have become very concerned about criminal activity both organized and random and the impact of that activity on society and their quality of life UNCLASSIFIED us Department of State Case No Peon-hem DocNo C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 7IFIED US Department of State Case No F-2017-13804 Doc No C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 95 O7zl0 N0 I460024l44 PAGE 6 VUITE HOUSE SITUATION ROW WEStroyev s second point concerned the shifting balance of power between the center and Russia's many regions Although the shift in power from the former to the latter has been exaggerated the regions are increasingly in control of their own destinies -- a trend that Stroyev endorsed Elections he argued are a good and necessary thing but ultimately of little consequence without meaningful economic recovery If we can find thoughtful people to carry out appropriate economic reforms Russia will have no trouble overcoming her current travails The last of the political leaders to speak was Rnslan Aushev president of the Ingush Republic Aushev devoted most of his attention to the problem of inter-ethnic relations in Russia and to the war in Chechnya He cautioned that without avnationality policy appropriate to and commensurate-with the current highly charged situation in Russia the attempts at economic and political reform however well-intentioned would be insufficient to lift the country out of crisis Aushev insisted that the overwhelming majority of the 110 ethnic communities in-Russia want to live in peace with one another but that current policy makes that difficult Aushev interpreted the Russian military campaign in Chechnya as a case of Russian nationalism gone too-far national zeal that could slip overate fascism He said that - both the Chechen and the Ingush peoples had suffered greatly under Stalin and been systematically suppressed during the Soviet period Given this history Aushev continued We-neestOIlistewd -- to them He urged the start of Chechen people in order to bring theafighting-to an-end aadra 9- warned that a failure to find an the war'in Chechnya could produce what that means Aushev warned 17w 5 there Aushev laiduthe $1 wzl ultimate blame for Chechnya on Yeltsin s advisers who did not understand the situation and so misadvised him g 1 As several before him had done Aushev underscored therimportance of regional economic reform arguing that if only Moscow were to atarg n profit from the current situation the-overall effect wou1d be-to a engender resentment If the regions-are strong according to Aushev Russia will be strong The-most effective way to'combat crime and corruption he argued is to guarantee that as many people as possible have a stake in the success of the reform process Making money Aushev claimed is a surest antidote to both class warfare and inter- -ethnic conflict The President thanked the Russian political leaders for coming and expressed his appreciation for the Opportunity to meet with them He noted that the problems discussed were very real but UNCLASSIFIED S Department of State Case No F- 2017- 13804 DocNo C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 6 6 9 8 8 1 7IFIED US Department of State Case No F-2017-13804 Doc No C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 Vane HOUSE sswnuow noon WE 05- 95 6002 9 0 7 that the intelligence and energy displayed by the group spoke well of the country s leadership The President made a number of points in response to comments made in discussion First on Yavlinskiy s description of Russia s as being half a democracy the President stressed the critical importance of regularly scheduled elections -- the single most important vehicle by which the people hold the leadership accountable for its actions and decisions Second the President argued for keeping the focus in U S -Russia relations on that which the two sides can do together the people of the United States and Russia he argued are best served when their leaders can find ways to cooperate Third in reference to European security the President underscored U 8 support for Russia' 5 full participation in the effort to create an integrated and secure Europe taking particular care to emphasize that NATO is not now nor will it be directed against Russia and its interests The development of the NATO-Russia relationship the President added is one of the ways that we seek to prevent Europe's redivision The Alliance enables the United States to remain committed to Europe security and is therefore a force for stability The American objective the President concluded remains an peaceful integrated Europe Feurth the President pointed to three goals that'should guide the provision of international financial assistance to Russia 1 that the assistance generate wealth 2 that its effe ts'be equitable and serve to preserve the social contract and 3 that it impose fiscal discipline on the government but that it do so with a heart Fifth the President Strongly endorsed the concept of regional economic development and drawing on his Own experience as a governor recommended the design and implementation of a series of strategic plans to help further that objective Sixth the President argued that in the le't century nations that can combine strong stable social relations and ethnically diverse populations -- the United States and Russia being two prime candidates -- are likely to demonstrate greater energy creativity and prOdu tivity than th-eir leSs diverse counterparts In closing the meeting the President once again thanked the group for making the time to join him at Spaso House Endorsing the idea of more aid to Russia 5 regions he promised to review the geographic distribution of U S assistance programs He also noted Secretary Rubin' 5 interest in the poss-ible visit to Russia of a group of Nobel laureates pledged to consider the proposal upon his return to the United States '-eOfoBEfokb o oo-sr-iu -r i U'lal - I UNCLASSIFIED US Department of State Case No 2017- 13804 DocNo C06698817 Date 06 25 2019 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu