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[Staff Meeting Transcripts] Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Chairman, Secret, [pages 30-34 regarding Argentina]

• · ·L V ·S · ' -· • _ •• •H' ' ' • '· • SE JJECLASSIFIEO AutN r ty Rep roo u cad at J NahoM Archives 1 By f'JARA Date Ji l ' ' Ill ·· _ In Attendance - Friday July 9 1976 Secretary of State Kissinger - Chairman D Mr Robinson P T M Mr • Habib Mr Maw Mr Eagleburger AF Mr ARA Mr EA EUR NEA INR S P EB Mr Mr Mr Mr Mr Mr Mr Mr S PRS PM IO H L Blake Acting Shlaudeman Gleysteen Acting Hartman Atherton Saunders Lord Boeker Funseth Vest Lewis Mr Ambassador McCloskey Mr Leigh Mr Borg Mr Aherne Mr Covey S S · S S ' • G GDS Reproduced al tile National Arcllives 2 The Secretary's Staff Meeting was convened at 8 21p m Secretary of State Kissinger as Chairman MR ROBINSON Good morning SECRETARY KISSINGER MR ROBINSON Good morning You have a memo recommending some action and position that I am to take_ at a meeting of the Export Administration Review Board that takes place at 10 o'clock morning SECRETARY KISSINGER You don't think I 1 d have memo already do you MR ROBINSON No SECRETARY KISSINGER I have not seen it heard it now do I know hat the subject is MR ROBINSON To export the Control Data Corporation computer SECRETARY KISSINGER take a position regret You can'· t expect me to You can't take a position I just our people can't produce their memos in time the Department can't take positions We go through this at every Staff Meeting MR ROBINSON I think this memo was in the day before yesterday SECRETARY KISSINGE R it was I didn't get it - l ' J' '- ' ' H •ll ·- r- --'--c' - •• DECLASSIFIED Aut Y lrity Reproduced at the Naaonal Archives '0 By NARA Date '1 '- 11181 ···· J i S2 E N · ' · ' ' w- L j Clf 3 l liJ4 't r ' or take no We'll have to reschedule the position -ve I will not -- I mean I will not act this way things run by me this way made it clear a thousand not just I I don't know what this is all about cas MR HABIB The re''s a of one similar to the Burroughs on the computer I regret it SECRETARY KISSINGER have to tell them the Department of Sta e We will not ready MR ROBINSON O K SECRETARY KISSINGER have some discipline here memorandum It 1 s the only way we can I have never seen this It's never be en brought to my attention MR ROBINSON Nell - t may SECRETARY KISSINGER be trivial but it's no way to do business MR ROBINSON Well we'll just take the position we have to get SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but then you have to make sure they don't take a position MR BOSINSON Yes We'll have to block it if there's any move toward a decision r · I It · of' · - '' • • •• ' • _ _ ········ oi ci P SSlFIED ·sEC·RET Aufry rHy j lLL - -i _ _ 8y _ N ARA Date tl PI Reproduced at he National Archival ' · ' ' · ' _ ' •'• t ' · ·' - - ' - 4 SECRETARY KISSINGER all about I don't know what this is To whom is the export MR HABIB China MR ROBINSON It 1 s to China Well it's to six million dollar contract but it has to do with the safeguards that would apply after the equipment installed It could be converted to stategic military purposes and we have a NSSM -- a NSSM 246 and 247 -- that sets out the requirements Ne insist upon after a similar -- afte r Russia and the Soviets accept it SECRETARY KISSINGER 1 they' never accept it M R question is ROBINSON They won·• t accept it Do you modify our rule recommended we not modify the rule And the And our people have It creates problems with France who are determined to go forward SECRETARY RISSINGER On the other hand we told them on our visit to China that we would be understanding You just have to hold this up This is on of those things where the idiot l went along just -- where was this done in NEA at the Desk Office MR LORD I got this ten days ago SECRE1 I can 1 ·1 - ' · · tr J' ''1'i i t' Ui' 'i i'ili l'l'l _ o ·· · __ - - •• - · - DECLASSIFIED Ropraauood at he National Archives Autfiority pu l a- 1 8y i2 NAM Date r Zt ju ·· 5 imagine why you didn't get the memo It's been staffed a long time SECRETARY KISSINGER Well by the time it leaves you there are at least ten other people who have to see it MR HABIB It has gone to every Bureau SECRETARY KISSINGER it's gom to me Bureaus to every Bureau not whether concern is whether it's· gone my Most of these things My concern I understand as well as the But this is a special case and I don't know how many people have signed off · Most of them don't know about Chinese relations on this issue MR ROBINSON Well TIJ'e'll just hold off on it SECRETARY KISSINGER We have a very special problem with this which you know MR LORD That's right and that's why I suggest this option on the Burroughs case as well SECRETARY KISSINGER It cannot be handled routinely and this sort of thing should be flagged to me right away It's insane to get the bureaucracies locked in on something in which we may have a special requirement Every department 1 I 1 rn sure no '17 taken DECLASSIFIED Reproduced aUhe National Archive Au rity pw By NAAA Oate tO6 a position MR ROBINSON They are all agreed I'll call· Elliot Richardson and forewarn him SECRETARY KISSINGER here This is a speci problem He'll say he'll solve it on a trip to China Laughter MR ROBINSON Well I'll take care fo it SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but this cannot be handled routinely to begin with MR ROBINSON Well I signed off on it as soon as it came ·in to you and I sent it in to you and that was the day before yesterday SECRETARY KISSINGER That isn 1 t the point By the time you·signed off you have eight Bureaus who probably have worked on it -- plus every scion on an issue that has some additional complications By the time they're all locked in what do you expect me to do -overrule the whole Government MR ROBINSON Well I recognize the problem You'll get it deferred SECRETARY KISSINGER how to handle Yes but I don't know -- particularly now -- in any event no matter what happens -- with all the paperwork that's already ·· c ' i L__t fil b · ' ' W' - _ · - ·' ' DECLASSifiED Reproduced at the Naiiqnal Archive SECRET AutbiJ ity liol¥- 8y NAPA Oate IH - ' · -· 7 Jr 7 gone on HR ROBINSON We know the other agencies' positions SECRETARY KISSINGER I donrt give a damn r mean they don't know anything You guaranteed n Evans and Novak column out of this -- unless we go along with a consensus MR LORD case You remember the Burroughs We suggested an option and I think it applies in this case as well SECRETARY KISSINGER MR HABIB planes it's underway I don't remember it On the movement of ships and mainly in today It's shipped on the 12th SECRETARY KISSINGER MR HARTMAN Art There ' s s orne talk that Mora may resign today which means that we won't have the interim government SECRETARY KISSINGER Well then what happens techilicall J MR HAR'I'MAN Technically it only falls on another Christian Democrat The rumors are Andreotti Cossiga -- although he denies any ambitions SECRET Andreotti is DECLASSIFIED Reproduced at he Nationa Archive 1 ' ' AutOOrity JJALa r- 8y NARA Date ' -- _ 8 he expects to be called certainly SECRETARY KISSINGER But can they form a government MR HARTMAN step in the dance ' Tell I think this is the first They'll discuss progra and the key question will be whether or not the Socialists decide to join If the Socialists don•t join ' '-in effect they're going to have to go along nd get a government that will really by everyone not voting against it SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but if they do join they can't get a program MR HARTMAN at the moment at least they do join Well the Socialists are asking for Communist agreement to the program at the least • Many in the Socialist group would like them actually participating They they-will be weakened if they are accepting a tough economic program and the Communists are outside and not committed to it But there are some Socialists who have apparently already started talking to Andreotti about the possibility of joining a program and putting it out publicly without what tve to join have to support to get the country · the Com- saying This is Ol lt of its t DECLASSIFIED Reproduced at the National Archives SECRET 9 a test economic difficulties and this whether or not you are prepared tb act in the national interest n SECRETARY KISSINGER MR HARTMAN Supposing they say yes If they say yes and the government goes ahead and that's the understanding with the Socialists you in effect have an understanding that ·they are there by the sufferance by the Communists having said yes I expect think that's really the minimum that you can Otherwise the other alternative is that they will have some deal nobody knows about that hasn f t worked out behind the scenes -- where probably some payoff has been made on the Communists in terms of positions SECRETARY KISSINGER Why did the Communists get the Speakership MR HARTMAN position in the vote To represent their No 2 Probably some of them thought it's the least way to pay them off SECRETARY KISSINGER But they've had the No 2 position in the vote for 20 years MR HARTMAN parties now Not with the size of the two They would have to have either that or some committee Chairmanships and I suppose they felt that SEC ·- DECLASSIFtED ''· Reproduced at the National Archive SECRI I ltJD ii1 69 By fa L NARA Date Au fiQnty TO the head of the House ·although somewhat prestigious was less difficult in terms of getting programs r•ve sent up to you a message to send out I to al ople thinks something more will happen l and Puerto Rico has been told about it I've sent both messages about SECRETARY KISSINGER MR • HARTMAN Let's have it then But the trouble is that the Italians have· come back interpreting what did or did not happen -- saying that in effect since they want· to be informed on the subject of Communist participation there was sort of a tacit understanding that would be all right So my cable answers that quite clearly SECRETARY RISSINGER What cable When are we going to go to the Turks with this MR HARTMAN we•re waiting for Bitsios to send it back to us SECRETARY KISSINGER 'In your that if Makarios agreed he would agree gotten Makarios• agreement told us Now we•ve Now we go back to Bitsios Then he'll say it ought to go back to Makarios MR HARTMAN Bitsios hadn't gotten the word yet l ll r l mi''fi J' - - O£- '' _ _ DECLASSifiED · SECRE'f AUtl ortty _ Reproduced at the National Archive By J ARAOate 1 11 from the cyprians and there's also some confusion beca use you have the two levels of aps now-- and it 1 s better to have Bitsios clearly understand that this about the second level of map because he never that he discussed only with the Cypriots I have news for you SECRETARY KISSINGER I haven't heard about the second level of maps either MR HARTMAN Well the one is getting on the table no matter how unrealistic it is The second the map they give to you SECRETARY KISSINGER that game I don't want to get into The second one -- I'm not -MR HARTMAN That's why I want to get Bitsios to come back to us and say O K to go to the Turks He hasn't done that ·SECRETARY KISSINGER The only one I'm interested in is the first le vel of maps MR HAR'rMAN SECRETARY Well if we don't-- KISSINGER I'm not going to let Makarios suck me into putting something forward in which he can then start riots in Nicosia MR 1 HART lAN t we obviously have to It's certainly not going to be a get some map on the table QE CR''E •l -'T'I I Reproduced at th NEftonal Archive · AuU ortty4JLl L I 8y JARA Date f-- ro ' --·111 ' '_f' i'f t 'l · t·· -- ' 12 one realistic So that is the first stage Well if we don't hear by the end -SECRErrARY KISSINGER If he gives me a realis map 23 percent then what do I do MR HARTMAN Well it can't he that 11 Realistic has got qt least to be what he said privately to us That's the whole point of it being realistic SECRETARY KISSINGER There are two maps on 'That's the second stage the table MR HARTMAN 0 K SECRETARY KISSINGER That is not a substitute MR • HARTMAN Since we've given him plenty time now to come bac k to us I' 11 get a mess ge up to him -- SECRETARY KISSINGER What did Kubisch ask him though about the -- about the private map or the -MR HARTMAN No no Kubisi h asked him whether or Turks He did not make a distinction between these not it was all right for us to go to the two things He told us maybe the reason -- SECRETARY KISS NGER playing a game again Look -- you guys are It's in it's the second one '•• t one I'm interested 're interested in ••• olh• - - ···-- •• 1 · I want to get --------·------------------------------- DECLASSIFIED Reproduced at 100 National Archives Au uy p l l By NARA Oate r ' ' ' ' - · the goddam talks started again · I dori' t give a damn about getting myself into the middle of this we had mixed these two things up to Christophides I ·I didn r t understand know what I said I have to keep him in place I've handled negotiations before MR HARTMAN this Yes The Greeks don't know about The Greeks have heard something from the Cypriots what they have heard vhich is different SECRETARY KISSINGER ever us I told Christophides if he serious he can give me a private proposal That has nothing to do with starting the communal talks on the two is of something we've been talking about for onths And if you now channel everything into this other one they're going to put me in the middle as a mediator and we're going to have riots in Ankara and Nicosia wh en they 1 re still 20 miles apart I don't understand why -- because he agreed to· it once before s ying the only thing they depended on was what Makarios said MR HARTMAN I think the reason he hasn't come back is because he's been hearing something different from Nicosia Nicos And when he hears something different from he gets very cautious DECLASSIFltD SE A u1tYlrity lol I'- F'­ Reproduced a he National Arch ay NARA Oate f ­ 7 1i 14 SECRETARY KISSINGER MR HART mN No And from Kubisch Kubisch didn't even know about this so he shows a certain amount of confusion I didn't knov r about it so SECRETARY KISSINGER why should Kubisch know I didn't know people had operated something that we had kicked around in my office into a formal proposal MR HARTMAN forward as a proposal Look -- we had never put it Makarios apparently likes it very much · SECRETARY KISSINGER The only thing I want is to see 'Y lhether the Greeks would put forward their absurd proposal so we can go to the Turks and et their absurd proposaL Now that's not a hard problem to handle We've been working on it for eight weeks MR HARTMAN Makarios would give you something which would put the monkey on your back He did not then give a clear signal to the Greek Government that he i lould put forward a map SECRETARY KISSINGER Well you doT 't think I'm going to put forward a map no matter what he tells me privately and get every American Greek marching down ' ' · OECLASSIFlEO Repro uced at the Nallonal i rchives Au Rority u l ¥- --r­ By NARAOate f15 Pennsylvania Avenue MR HARTMAN That's right I told Christophides I SECRETARY KISSINGER auld never do it never told them I would do it when they were 20 percent apart MR takes it HARTMAN But w·hen he sees an opportunity he He's not given his word to the Greek Government that he will put a map on the government SECRETJ4 Y KISSINGER I can force you to clear up what the issue is so that everybody knows he's talking about the same thing We want everybody to agree to put forward a map on the next session That's not a hard concept to get across MR HARTMAN Right Probably we will not get Turkish agreement to do thatr but perhaps they will put more precise criteria SECRETARY KISSINGER If they don't I have come to the conclusion nobody wants an agreement anyway So I just don't want to get myself or the u S into the midd le of something that all the parties have decided is going to 1 There's no will to an MR HARTMAN agreem nt anywhere That's right SECRETARY KISSINGER -- but we do have to make DECLASSIFIED Reproduced at he Nallooa Archrve 16 'some procedural efforts which are getting screwed up in a way that is incomprehensible agreeing to put forward MR HARTMAN yes -- but they We've got the Greeks a proposal right The Greek Government in Athens 1 they cannot com'Tlit the Cypriot Government until they hear from them SECRETARY KISSINGER You don't think the· human language can be constructed to get a yes o no answer from the other places within 2 4 hours and say We want to know this 11 This is where I started with Wa1dheim when was it --·six weeks ago And here we are waffling around six weeks later when all we needed·was MR HARTMA N tQ get yes or Well I'm just telling you what happened SECRETARY KISSINGER · Yes but what did we do when we· got the confusing telegram MR HARrrMAN and say We asked Kubisch· to go back in Wouldn 1 t the Cypriot Government put a map on the table to begin the negotiations that And we needed o K SECRETARY KISSINGER And Bi tsios said Why don't you ask the Cypriot Government 11 no DECLASSIFIED Reproduef ld atltie National Archive Au 11Qrlty U 8y NARA Oate _ _ j lj 17 · ' ' MR HARTMAN No ask the Cypriot Government SECRETARY KISSINGER is 11 Bitsios said I must which he did All right Now what saying MR EART N Now he's got the question again and he hasn't answered us SECRETARY KISSINGER And Whqt did -- I understand Makarios· said yes MR HARTMAN He said yes to give you a map SECRETARY KIS SINGER · A '1d at that point when was clear there was confusion what did 'le do MR HARTMAN We -- SECRETAltY KISSINGER confusion· We said 11 Yes there is 11 MR HARTMAN No 1 no SECRETARY KISSINGER back to Makarios cleared up Well why don't we go All I want is to get this thing Is that beyond our technical capability MR HARTMAN No SECRETARY KISSINGER All we want is a clear ques tion to Makarios already telling him what we said to Christophides -- telling him we can't do anything until there are maps on the table and until they have •• - - • - ' ·• l-• DECLASSIFIED Reproduced a he Nauonal Art11rve Autilortty j U -j f- By NARA Date · 18 T · · · explained their position I have explained to Chris tophides at great length we couldn't do anything MR HARTMAN All right Let me just see whether I can get something out of Bitsios today SECRETARY KISSINGER You also have to get something out of Makarios MR HART mN · No Bitsios will not answer us until he's gotten Makarios' approval They're the ones that have the maps on the table · We started 'off with him then had to get the Greek Cypriots to agree He Then we were going to go to the Turks and they were going to put something on the table SECRETARY KISSINGER Yesr but all this has been taking weeks MR HARTMAN Well werre not out phase with Waldheim because he's just sending his man around and that's just beginning now·as a preparation to see whether he'll call me SECRETARY KISS INGER Art 1 ·can we get an answer MR HARTMAN MR SAUNDERS Yes On the Foreign Research Institute · - i'i l' l' 'O f JOI 'Jri'i' 0 •• - - SEC DECLASSIFIED Auu' Jri tJ No 8y m6 9 Reproduced at the Na ional Archives t ARA Date 19 question which we discussed with the university presidents in April they have had some considerable staff v1ork done since SECRETARY KISSINGER on Monday I'm having lunch with them Can I get something on it MR SAUNDERS Yes we will have a memo for you today so you will have it over the weekend to read They have done a survey of the universities now They've pictured problems as closer to ten men rather than four -- which raises the question whether the long-term problem can be resolved with existing authority They will propose that we try in the ne xt year to not use HEW money over the short but over the longer term I think they'll seek money from the Congress Then the question will again be Administration is best able to Which administer HEW There's even now something from the National Science Foundation At least we 1 ve now had·some harder figures than we've had before This This is a step forward what they'll be presenting to you SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes Jim SEC Reproduced at the Nauonal Arch ves 20 • BLAKE Only warm words continue between the Kenyans and the Ugandans but there's no sign of military activity SECRETARY KISSINGER MR LEWIS noon Sam The debate will start this after- We will not speak before Monday or Tuesday at the earliest Mr Secretary The Kenyan Foreign Minister is now in New York and there are indications that he's going to hit the Ugandans fairly hard when he speaks There's a dispute about how you this whole affair on the agenda with the Africans insisting on the word aggre Ssion on the agenda SECRETARY KISSINGER How many votes do they · need -- nine MR LEWIS They need nine · SECRETARY KISSINGER MR LEWIS Can they get it If we can hold seven sympathetic to our draft that blocks the option 'l1he odds are someone will block it before it's over SECRETARY KISSINGER MR LEWIS So we don't have to veto That•s right SECRETARY KISSINGER with· their own resolution then But then can't they come in • '' 4 '-i l5jl W • -l · o r JJ ·' ••• p - - •·•·• DECLASSIFIED Repro 'Xlced at llle National Archiv€S Au I P arlty pu loLJII- -f8y fa NARA Oate r -v · ' • · J t I ··· 21 ' • MR LEWIS resolution Well they've got their own What they can do is take some elements out of ours and make it sufficiently palpable to the Swedes or Panamanians and then block off some votes back to the veto situation Then we'll be And that's the game we'll play SECRETA RY KISSINGER Monroe what exactly is our legal position on this -- that this was a defensive act MR • LEIGH Well I think it's better to say i t was a legitimate act under international law to p rotect the lives of nationals whose lives had been threatened by terrorist acts self-defense Ultimately that basis goes back to But self-defense 2300 miles from your ·own territory isn't the best public-relations way to put it So we have tried to play that·down in the legal memorandum which we've prepared · But you may have ·to say it -and when you get around to talking about the C-130s the language we have within the agreement with Israel is self-defense but I think the legal basis SECRETARY KISSINGER When I have a press· conference today I 1 m surely going· to be asked about it -- probably by some Jewish correspondent who will accuse me of betraying ' ' ··· ·· ' ' · k· DECLASSIFIED SE Au Bority U f I4 ---4- J W Reproduced atfue Nauo al Archwe By tl NARA Date '22 Israel if I carry out what MR LEIGH 's starting- Well the problem here to get ahead of the Israelis before they state their lega position it seems to me Now you could take the line -SECRETARY KISSINGER -- we they don't s af lk · me What do I say if I'm asked te our legal position -- or do I ·sas if they received C-l30s in conformity with agreements with us MR LEIGH Well we just say yes next question will be 11 Then the What is your theory lr probably And I would simply say that the agreements contemplate that certain actions can taken under the rubric s lf-defense SECRETARY KISSINGER The Turks can now defend people 50 miles from Turkey but the Israelis can't defend their people 2300 miles from Israel MR LEIGH Well if the Turks hadn't sent in the second waver you would have had a good legal position for it -- but the second wave destroyed it MR HABIB You can use somewhat the same argument MR LEIGH Here the Israelis got out fast SECRETARY KISSINGER There was an international SE DECLASS_IFIEO Au 11Qr1ty - -o L W 8y NARA Date r Reproduced at llie Natonal Archives P I -• ··· ·· · · 23 1 1 · Y agreement where the Turks were an international power MR HABIB We used the same argument ·basic self-defense for their security MR LEIGH We used it Mayaguez SECRETARY KISSINGER going to cut our economic aid hasn't gone this Well no one was Brademas Laughter far yet MR HABIB In the case of Indones MR EAGLEBURGER You have to our finding is the use of this equipment was not in violation of the agreement -- period MR LEIGH You can say that SECRETARY KISSINGER Wayne Hays Check with Congressman Laughter And what is the theory on the first one -- they were protecting their nationals MR LEIGH They we e SECRETARY KISSINGER protecting their nationals Well I'm ·going to try to avoid taking a very firm position anyway MR LEIGH Yes sir SECRETARY KISSINGER Do you know whether the statemer the White House· is going to make today is on this issue ·• '- · DECLASSIFIED Repr d at the National Archiw Au rtty U-Mt'l-o_ r -¥--f - 8y rJARA Date r-24 Addresses Mr Eagl burger MR EAGLEBURGER No i apparently 1 s It' s on the UN SECRETARY KISSINGER MR LEWIS On the UN vote Had they decided to put that out AMBASSADOR McCLOSKEY No they had not Jet decided Therefore we're going to keep to your schedule SECRETARY KISSINGER to do is the long and short They have not decided what At least the White it House Press Secretary doesn't understand So we may find that they are going to hold a press AMBASSADOR McCLOSKEY seriously I doubt that very The only possibility I hink is a statement by the President SECRETARY KISSINGER thing That's the worst of every- I 1 d rather have him have a press conference That's the worst possible solution AMBASSADOR McCLOSKEY They were unable to give me a clear answer on what they were going to do advice was Their Don't cancel the Secretary's press confe rence SECRETARY O K My point is if in answer to a question at a press conference he says it's bad Reproduced atthe Nationa I Archives 25 enough -- because it just hook every European off the They're going to let us vote alone and nobody is going to do anything But if we put out a formal statement then we are totally -AMBASSADOR McCLOSKEY I would make that view known personally when you go there this morning I have n·o intention of going SECRETARY KISSINGER there this morning AMBASSADOR McCLOSKEY You can do it by phone Yes I'll-rnake my view SECRETARY KISSINGER known Roy MR ATHERTON You saw that Bhutto wants you to come to Kabul Of course how does Bhutto SECRETARY KISSINGER know that I'm going to Kabul does-he know Laugh ter Just a minute-- how The old palaver factory was working Well how would he know that I'm even thinking of going to Kabul since all I have said to Mr Nim€Li s that I would conceivably go to Kabul l MR ATHERTON Because Bairoad was asked to brief Bhutto on your talks with Nime -- including that point DECLASSIFIED Reproduced atlhe Nalkliial Archlll i AutooMty By MARA Date - 26 SECRETARY KISSINGER point where I need a la vyer through very rapidly You know it is reaching the You know I read these things I don't anticiapte ·that you add to it · ' 50 other pieces of information Why was that a significant piece of information for Bhutto MR ATHERTON know I was· not here Well Mr Secretary I don't But I read the telegram when I came back and it was signed out by you course but I just glanced SECRETARY KISSINGER it to see if it was a correct summary of my conversation I didn t read it as a legal brief You're absolutely right I've got to do that from now on MR ATHERTON Well in any case if you were to go 1 B utto would have certainly raised it at some point SECRETARY KISSINGER Hell if I cancel Kabul he'll think I cancelled it because I didn't want to go to Islamabad I can't go to Islamabad without going to Delhi m ATHERTON You can SECRETARY KISSINGER MR ATHERTON How' Because you can put lt in DECLASSIFIED Authority pu _ S r NARA Date _ ·__ _ 27 context of a trip to Tehran and in recent discussions Pakistai has really got two orientations in this -- very much in the contest of Western orientation SECRETARY KISSINGER W'ell I'm sure that would be clearly understood in New Delhi That's a self-evident explanation MR ATHERTON It would be a problem but it's one you could manage SECRETARY KISSINGER It's not as bad as selling May 7th-- I'll grant you -MR ATHERTON SECRETARY MR HABIB That's right KISSINGER -- but it 1 s a clear signal There also is a considerable desire for you to go to Singapore ··Bangkok go to East Asia hd other' places when you ·· Now that you might be able to combine if anythfng happens in the Philippines • SECRETARY KISSINGER No There 1 s no way I can go to Islamabad Singapore and Bangkak·and overfly India That wouldn't also be understood because we weren't going to another part of the world MR HABIB I wouldn't think you would want to do Bangkok and Singapore unless the Philippine agreement is at a stage when you're going to go to the Philippines and Reproduced at the National Archives 28 close it out I would say forget about Singapore and Bangkok SECRETARY KISSINGER · Does Sullivan understand this MR HABIB Well Sullivan is s·tiJ l hopeful getting an agreement by the end of July Now frnakly I don't see any chance of a snowball in hell for getting it SECRETARY KISSINGER But I don't see any sign that they're working on it seriously MR HABIB Oh they're working on it I've checked on it myself this week and it's just that the Filipinos have produced a draft They haven ' t even yet told us how much money is involved and you're in the f Qu J th week of negotiations significant element And that's the most They're holding back on it If they come up with a 700 million dollar package plus other considerations which they've raised -- ih · which the mi litary to take a just unwilling to give on it-- it's going while to force hand They may very well take the initiative At this Stage Sullivan still has some smoking out to do Philippine position so I He 1 s not yet got the full• don't know OECLASSIFIEO Reproduced at the Natior al Archives Au Aority ' By NARA Date tl 29 llf'tllll v · ' '·•··· · ' ··· · f' What do you think Bill MR GLEYSTEEN It's impossible SECRETARY KISSINGER My strong position from the yery beginning is Sullivan wanted this thing held over until after the election MR HABIB way No sir It's just the other The military are now convinced that Sull van will ' 'fc get an agreement by July and is going to sell them down the river And you've got an element of suspicion in it which means they're trying to drag their feet SECRETARY KISSINGER That's fine with me too MR HABIB Wel the only thi ng is reca ll the President said to Marco s · -- you he'd like to have it by September -SECRETARY 'KISSINGER Can we find out from Sullivan what it is MR E BIB We sent a cable to Sullivan yesterday asking him just that question SECRETARY KISSINGER O K good Harry MR SHLAUDEMAN I think the signs are that the Videla Argentine Goverrnuent -- this group of military -- ' ·· ·- h ' · ' ··· - ' Reproduced at the National A r hives Autilorlty ¥- 1'­ By NARA Oate - r • • 4HIIII'I• ' f 11111J ' ' '-- · i •' ' ' I SECRETARY KISSINGER cable incidentally I'm shown a cable is that it 30 Could I see that Bhutto What is the principle on which No possible operational significance Laughter AMBASSADOR McCLOSKEY is the principle Least need to know Laughter I got the wrong message SECRETARY KISSINGER from you Larry yesterday The message I got was there was a definite decision not to have a press conference in the White House 'l1hat 1 s what I got MR EAGLEBURGER Secret Service as The message I sent to the there apparently would be no press conference there would be a statement SECRETARY KISSINGER That's a total disaster Go ahead Harry MR SHLAUDEMAN Well let rne j ust say that it looks very much that this group for Videla in Argentina the security forces are totally out of controL We have these daily waves of murders Whom are the security forces SECRETARY KISSINGER -w orki ng for though MR SHLAUDEMAN They're working for themselves pretty much now i • r t £ '- J 1 __ -- - · I· - ·--• ' ' ' -W -· DECLASSIFIED Reproduced at the Nallonal Archive Au tiYJ ri ty pu IQ - '-fi- By NARA Date li4 - 3 d _ _ 31 SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but in what direction MR SHLAUDEMAN It's what•s turned into a very large-scale Mafia warfare between the security forces and the leftist urban guerrillas We get our human rights constituents -- who it sometimes seems to me are the only ones we have -- clamoring after us all the time about Ar gentina because they think it is anoth er Chile but it isn't SECRE'rARY MR KISSINGER It's worse SHLAUDEMAN It' s t otally different The Chileans eliminated their opposition really in the first 24 hours but nobody in Argentina is in control of anything And this thing is a bad situation SECRETARY KISSINGER But what could be done if ·we wanted to do something MR SHLAUDEM14 I don't think there's anything we can do frankly SECRETARY KISSINGER -- if they're out of control MR SHLAUDEMAN I think we have to wait until somebody surfaces to get a handle SECRETARY KISSINGER according to some theory on this Do· the security forces work I mean do iavE · spacific SEC ReprDiJuced at the National Archivt 32 lll lllli o nl ·- ' · • f t···· targets' MR SHLAUDEMAN Yes • I think theory is that they can use the Chilean method -- that is to terrorize the opposition -- even by killing priests and nuns and others The problem is that theyre up against a much tougher situation with the Chileans where the guerrillas are very well organized very 'lell armed SECRETARY KISSINGER But whom do the guerrillas get their support from MR SHLAUDEMAN support internally They're getting most of their They have a lot of middle-class supporters • SECRETARY KISSINGER But where do they get their arms f r'orn MR SHLAUDEtllAN They got their arms from killing people and building a very large war chest SECRETARY KISSINGER Yes but what is their basic orientation r m SHLAUDEMAN There ar·e two groups -- the ERP and the Montoneros The ERP are Trotskyites - SECRETARY KISSINGER MR SHitAUDEMAN That's a great choice we have -- really Reproduc d at the National Archive 33 SECRETARY KISSINGER But if these guerrillas are so powerful that even even something doesn't put them down what are they screaming about -- that they can terrorize and kidnap MR SHLAUDEMAN That's exactly right SECRETARY KISSINGER should be done I mean what is it that -- because clearly these movements aren't going to stop their kidnapping are they No not at all MR SHLAUDEMAN I think the difference between the two ·countries has to be explained -- the difference between these situations and the fact is that we can really do nothing at the moment about this situation SECRETARY KISSINGER would we do I think But even if we could what Wouldn't the operational consequence of telling the government to lay off be that the terrorists take over -- if the situation is as you've described it MR SHLAUDEMAN Yee i and I also think that telling them to lay off is fruitless because the people who are doing it -- they have no real control of it SECRETARY KISSINGER That's the position But it isn't just mindless ter ror either is it No -- although it descends to that MR SHLAUDEMAN i ' II Reproduced at the National A rchiVt ' Au 1 liL rity j JU _ _ ' '- 'f6y dl NARA Date --- - 1 v · · _34 ' 1 • level at times SECRETARY KISSINGER MR But on both sides Very much so -- the guerrillas are using you say the story about The terror bombs increasingly if police chief's daughters' best friend who put the bomb under his bed and blew him up SECRETARY KISSINGER bedroom What was she doing in his Laughter MR HABIB She had gone to study SECRETARY KISSINGER Laughter Do you want to do a memo me -· MR HABIB I wilL SECRETARY KISSINGER giving me the breakdown the various groups so that I understand what I am reading MR HABIB I will SECRETARY KISSINGER O K Does EA have anything MR GLEYSTEEN Nothing SECRETARY KISSINGER I like quiet Bureaus Laughter MR GLEYSTEEN I might just say one thing on the ' _ l ' l¥ ar 4 -V S 1- 1· - ___ ·- · ··· ·• · '' DECLASSlflED _ _ _ · Reproducad at the National Archives Au rity J llJ JI- l By - NARA Oate w 35 Tahvan authorities 1 accordi ng Olympic issue to the 1 have made a statement which may help saying that they will accommodate to whatever the International Olympic Committee says about their nomenclature But I'm not sure precisely how far they'll go without your help SECRETARY KISSINGE·R 1i'fuat should I say when I'm asked about this today MR GLEYSTEEN wh tt we have been saying I think you should say which is that the issue is not one of states tl-lat we hope i t will be possible for athletes to participate MR HABIB Well1 also that the matter is one between the International Olympic Comrni ttee ·and the Canadians and it's being dealt with in context ·that it's not a subject that we have to make a decision on This has always been done in this way in previous Olympics It's handled by an international committee SECRETARY KISSINGER But isn't there· a ·case where the government objected to decisions by the Olympic committee MR GLEYSTEEN I don't think so The previous case was where the Olympic committee sat in the room The DECLASSIFIED Reproduced al'the National Archiv• Au tOOrlty 4JL Lliot¥- f- -L- - ay a _ NARA oate _ 36 Olympic committee its set the rule And this I 's time the Canadian Government I think it's unpreced€m ted SECRETARY KISSINGER MR GLEYSTEEN m1at happened in '72 In '72 there was no problem SECRETARY KISSINGER Did the Chinese complain in Ottawa MR GLEYSTEEN The Chinese complained in Ottawa very strongly over a long period of time -- several months SECRETARY KISSINGER O K Whereupon at 9 00a m the Secretary's Staff Meeting was adjourned