DECLASSIFIED Authority do not want ametate within a state mw# 29026 in m musicales or sun D C 20301 27 September 1971 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT JCS Meeting 1400 Friday 24 September Meorer Chairman Zumwalt Palmer Admiral Admiral' General General Meyer General Davis Lt General _Present 1 The Chairman welcomed-Ambassador Popper and stated that the Chiefs were delighted to have him there to give them a rundown on the current situation in Cyprus LAmbassador Popper expressed his pleasure'ih meeting with the Chiefs and said that Cyprus was certainly a sensitive place He said that he would cover the prOblem areas as he sees them He also pointed out that he was involved in the drug'problem for the President_and would be happy to comment on that area after they had discussed Cyprus if time permitted 'With regard to Cyprus he said it has a unique position in the Mediterranean It is the third largest island which has some 650 000 people 4 5 Greek and l S'Turkish It is only 40 miles away from Turkey and 500 miles from Greece Of the problem is that there is yery strong Greek feeling on the island and the Turks cannot accept domination by the Greeks It was a British colony until 1960 Pointing to a'map he said that the Greeks inhabit the entire island and that there is a pepper and salt scattering of Turks He pointed out that in 1964 and 1967 the US played God to avert a fullescale civil war between the Greeks and the Turks The-people in'the-island have-never forgiven us for intervening This raises the question Can and ShOuld it be stopped again The Turkish Cypriots want partnership treatment not 18% minority treatment r The Greeks There is just no chance for simple agreement on-this issue VThe military in Turkey are 'ustifiably conCerned that cyprus not fall into hostile hands They are watching the situation very-closely and they might under Certain conditions be tempted tb take over part of the island The present government there is very emotional EYES ONLY num- 3'DocIdt31291446 I Authority 9 roe seesaw - EYES Complicating the problem is the fact that Makarios and the Greeks differ as to pbssible solutions It is important to us as one element of strategic stability and it3is important as a base It is also_importaht to us as a Communications center in many ways It is in our interest-to keep them talking and not let another crisis_develop We-have got to find new procedures to keep them talking for 2 or 3 years ' The Chairman then asked what about the British Ambassador responded by saying that it is the same as ours with One exception with the Withdrawal of the'British troops from the area the UK bases become more important 'If the problem were settled the bases could then become the primary-target Consequently the British are less eager for a solution than we are but on-the whole their position-and interests are the same as ours The Chairman then asked about the impact of General Grivas The Ambassador said we can t be sure since he turned up in Cyprus but he was concerned since Griya3 is a fool- hardy individual who almost single-handedly precipitated the 1967 crisis -The situation is different todayi People have been living in peace for some time That raises the question as to why he is there One theory is that it might be-a com plicated ploy _The-Greek goyernment may be trying to put pressure on Makarios to get some kind Of ah agreement with him The Chairman commented that MakariOS'doesn't seem to be too worried since he ngcoming to the UN ThewAmbassador said No he didn't think he was leaving the Foreign Minister would probably come to the The Chairman observed that someone in WashingtOn suggested that_we invite'Makarios-over here Would that be helpful The Ambassador observed that it might be helpful but would be hard to control without antagoniz - ing the Turks Makarios last meeting with the President did a lot of goody but if you will reball he also made a trip to visit the Soviet Union He pointed out_that as a result Soviet- NATO naval operations were mentioned in_indirect terms 'The Ambassador pointed cut that there is a well established Communist party there Thirty per cent of the-Greek people are Communists - or Communist sympathizers It_is a large well disciplined group 5 and probably building up for a distant day The Chairman then asked who is the leading Turk The Ambassador said a Dr Kuchuk Admiral Zumwalt asked about the status of the UN peace-keeping force The Ambassador said in 1964 they totalled about 7 000 I They are now down to about 3 100 They have been very effective They very effectively Cope with 2 --5 incidents_a day Their efforts have been to provide a catalyst to give the party in the - wrong a chance to back off _ They have been an essential element in perpetuating the peace and they need to keep them there 2 I 'Tee sseasm g8 Nw# 29026 DocId231291446 DECLASSHHED Authority 9 -their own parties pretty well I Like the UN they-are in trouble financially General Palmer asked if-there Was any risk that we might Wind up with a Malta like'situation The AmbaSSador said Yes there is a risk but it wOuld'be different than the situation in Malta In Malta we had the NATO aspe ts The British have been very careful not to relate any-of their bases with NATO CENTO- yes but NATO no It is important to our Side that there be no NATO overt presence in Cyprus If they discover any visible -presence of our forces in Cyprus the Sbviets Would probably take some action-and we might find ourselves in an Egyptian - like situation The Ambassador went On'to point out that-there is really no simple solution to the prOblem All interests at the moment are Checkmated The-least centroversial actiOn at the present time is to maintain the status quo - Each side runs There is much to be said in favor of letting the situation drift along and trying to talk both sides down to realistic demands The only promise for the future-is to keep them'talking We have no way to put pressure on either side-to get them-to accept a half a loaf AmeriCans are better off'over there than'the Greeks Or-Turks ' There are 320 Americans there and the only problemsthave been the com ments in the Communist press The Chairman thanked him and the Ambassador departed at 2 The Chairman was called out of theimeeting to see Mr Laird and returned at 1505 3 The Chairman said he had'talked to Secretary Laird with regard to General Weyand taking over the CORDS responsibility 4 The Chairman said he would like togobtain the Chiefs' views on a paper on command and centrol he reminded them of the old Packard paper on the subject-and pointed out that he has been discussing this for-a month to try to get it turned aropnd There haVe been quite a_few changes actually-a reversal of the previous position 'He said he was going to see-Mr Packard again at'1630 As the paper was distributed he pointed cut that there had been limited Staf ing of the new Packard paper in OSD and that-he had-no idea of the cemments-which came back to Mr Packard The-Chairman'pointed out that he and General vogt had taken Mr Packard's paper and_gone through3the past history of the problem and tried to correct the paper so that there would be no deviation-from the law Their effort was to make minimum changes so that Mr -Packard would not reque the fixes 3 - men sseaeeh EYES ONLY DocId 31291446 DECLASSIFIED Authority l 1 page 8 Ldefinition --written is really-the-way it-works-now5 W- EYES i He_said he wanted to go over the paper paragraph by paragraph He pointed out that the first significant point was the new definition of the NCA The NCA is not defined in law It was coined by the-Secretary of Defense in l962J he pointed out that-what had been'done was take Packard's definition and work the_Joint Chiefs back into the paragraph After some-discussion the Chairman suggested that the Chiefs go through the entire paper and see all of the changes alSo he was not sure that Mr Packard would bqua of the fixes General Vogt read a quote from Ike with regard to'taking the Chiefs out of the Chain of command 1 General Palmer-observed that-he was dated 'With regard to paragraph 5 the Chairman'said'that-he thought Mr Packard was off the kick that the Services do not need a center He said he has finally convinced Mr Packard that the individual Services do-not issue orders'to forces assigned to unified and specified commands The Chairman pointed cut that the was not aboard yet and that they had of the developing requirements and changed his duties to one of reviewinerequirements The-same change was made on They have also taken out the thought of'the council monitoring the The Chairman said-that under his concept the civilian secretaries-would work to fulfill_the requirements established by the mi1itary He observed that they always want to fight the strategy rather than provide the hardwarei General Meyer commented on his experience while he'was JeB'handling the' ROLLING THUNDER project and mentioned the a t that the orders had been prepared and issued and then the3Chairman would get the information to the Chiefs-at the firStfopportunity The Chairman pointed out that he alwaYS tried to do that and cited the last strike in North Vietnam as ah example General Palmer observed that it was a mistake to_go along with the new NCA Admiral Moorer pointed out that the Way it was General Palmer said he agreed but technically the Chiefs have been in the act since 1962 General DaViS asked'if page 7 could be changed to that-actions were based on the-recommendationS'of the Joint Chiefs General Meyer observed that'the'principal concern was the execution of the The Chairman said Yes but Mr Packard was con t earned by too many nodes and too many people to deal with Admiral zumwalt read a quote rom the statute with regard to the Joint Staff as-a corporate body of the Joint Chiefs Cf Staff providing a single command post and then observed that the thrust of the revised paper seems to erode that_position he suggested putting a fiX'in'on page 2'a1ong the lines will provide a single'and central command post tor the transmiSSion-H a EYES ONLY r q0 DocId 31291446 I Authority 50 13524 I I pOSition based on the statutes EYES ONLY of strategic directions approved by the Secretary othefense to the unified and specified_commanders The Chairman com- mented that Mr Packard doesn't distinguish between planning and execution The Chairman then read Senator Russell's-com-_ ments that authorized the Joint Chiefs of Staff an increase from 210 to 400 to handle operations General Palmer commented that the revised paper was taking the Chiefs as a Corporate body out of operations while the intent of the Reorganization-Act was to put them in General Vogt'talled attention to the new werds that-had been inserted on page'l -General Palmer said that he didn t think they should agree to take the Joint Chiefs of Staff out of the NCA defihition The-intent of the law was to keep the Chieis in v In any'event they would have to consult Congress and -h09efully the change He_went on to say that the changes weaken-the position of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Meyer said Can we find some words that would'be accaptable to uS We have got to remember that the politica1 climate is different Mendel Rivers and RuSsell_are no longer'there 9 Admiral Zumwalt said What about the President 'The Chairman said he didn't knOW' if he would get into it Basically the problem was t0 either 1 try to work out some solution or 2 to stone-wall them General Palmer said_he would stone-wall - Admiral_ZuMwalt asked- what the Chairman's judgment was -The Chairman said-that Mr Packard has changed considerably - We haVe made a quantum ijp toward the Chiefs viest General a mistake to take the Chiefs out Of the Admiral Moorerwsaid that he may agree to include the Chiefs but you can't support that Admiral Zumwalt said that if we can include the Chiefs along with the changes made on page 2 it would be much batter He went on to say-that frankly he didn't know how muCh leverage the Chiefs had and that the Chair man has the best feel for the problem General Meyer said why not stoneewall a starter and go up with these changes General Davis said that if they take the Chiefs out of the NCA they are not violating'the law The Chairman said that is right There'is just no law that demands that the Chiefs be in the NCA I and then he read an extract from the Blue Ribbon Panel-Report General Palmer observed that it would be'very dangerous to take the Joint Chiefs out of the NCA but thought that was what they wanted to do -- take the Chie s out Admiral Moorer said that I 'he-did tell Mr Packard that_this was a fundamental issue and 'the only leverage was to see the President-or take it'up with Congress General Palmer observed that they haven t whipped us 5 EYES 1 DocIdz31291446 DEC LASSIFIED Authority see-eseese yet as long as the Chiefs stay together There is no urgency on deVeloping requirements Mr Packard should be told that the Chiefs don't understand why he wants to take the Chiefs out of the channel The Chairman said that after his meeting with Mr -Packard perhaps a meeting-with the Secretary-of Defense and the Chiefs would be in order generaltPalmer said you could 'argue that limiting the NCA to the Secretary of Defense and the President-limits Survivability The NCA-should be more than just two civilians It should be broader than two when con sidering SIOP Admiral thwalt said TWould it help or hurt if the Chiefs The Chairman said It doesn't make any difference to me I will jnst tell him what you all had to say General Meyer observed that if they had some different guys upstairs'that-he would start to worry -Admiral Moorer said that in the final analysis they can_do it the way they want-to General Palmer said No sir they can't they will have to contend with-Congress 'They will be interested'in why the change Mr Packard should be asked if he-has read the minority report of the Blue Ribbon-Defense Report and asked where the system had failed - The Chairman reviewed the briefing that had been given to Mr Packard on the and Mr Packard's comments that he was not going to tackle anything until_he had the command System straightened'out He put a freeze on all actions butC were finally able to break loose on the airborne command post - General Meyer commented that-he i I wondered if there'had'been any talk with the leadership on the Hilli He had-heard some talk that there had been discussions with Hebert _ Admiral Zumwalt obserVed_that_Lairdeand PaCRard -were a powerful combination in dealing with the Hill General Meyer observed that if it'ever gets to Congress the Chieijwill have a very difficult time making-their case because so muCh depends on highly classified documents General vogt said that when he had'talked to Mr Packard on this subject he had focused on the NCA and had commented that hath he ahd Mr Laird - thought the change in definition would'result in a major con- - frontation'with the Chiefs General Vogt said-the best words 1' he could come up_with after-thorough page-l 1 After all the Secretary of-Defense'put the Joint-Chiefs into the NCA in 1962 and Hthhat giveth can-taketh-away General Davis commented that it would not be illegal to take the Chiefs out Admiral Zumwalt said that they want the Chiefs out I JGeneral Palmer read another quote from the statutes and said that the change would violate'the intent of-the law Admiral Zumwalt said lawyers are very flexible General Palmer said he wasn't sure he thought it would be worth a fight The Chiefs ought to make them shove it 6 - EYESONLY - Lasts-Ir V o DocId 31291446 DEC LASSIFIED Authority i himself If preesed too hard-he may go-back to-his original position - down their throats General vogt-said this is the'first proposal There_have been'Some very significant changes and that Admiral Moorer was responsible for considerable-progress ' General Palmer said he sees this as an over-all game plan with_the change in the NCA definition as a first Second step would be to establish and the third step would be to put a civilian in charge and that over all it was not worth the risk Admiral Zumwalt said with regard to paragraph 6b it w0uld be a good idea to insert the thought as executive agent for Staff General Palmer thought be good Admiral Zumwalt asked if a footnote couldn't be added on page l'along the lines of L acting for and keeping the Joint Chiefs of Staff informed General Palmer observed that there was semething illegal about separating the Chairmangfrom the Joint Chiefs'of Staff General Vogt observed that the Chairman didn t have a vote in the Joint' Chiefs of Staff deliberations in 1952 and'that was corrected in 1958 Admiral Moorer-observed that they make the change He also said that they had looked and looked at the statutes and couldn't find anythingithat would forbid him from making the change General Meyer observed that we would have to be careful to be-shre that the Chairman doesn't wind up with two separate hats He went on to ask what arguments would help to persuade Mr Packard efficiency He said Mr Packard had-the idea we would be fighting-the next war using the flimsy baff system ' The Chairman observed there may be two different objectives4 Mr Packard wants to make work Mr 'Laird Wants to move along the Blue Ribbon-Panel line General Vogt_said that Mr Packard had written this new directive Admiral Zumwalt observed that-was what worried him The Chairman commented that he didn't think Mr Packard would play General Palmer'S-game plan General Palmer said he agreed with regard to Mr Backard -but there are some other_guys up' there The-Chairman said that he-w0u1d have to go up to the meeting and-that there are two We don t know the changes that-the other General Meyer said he didnft have too much trouble With the way it had been fixed but he would_go along with whatever the Chiefs wanted Admiral moorer suggested that they-might insert the thought in the_NCA definition along'the lines as well as the Joint Chiefs of Staf -to carry out their statutory respon sibilities General Palmer said That isua_good idea - 02 31 DocId 31291446 DECLASSIFIED I Authoriwwzb 'council was concerned it was his idea to have the group - ONLY Admiral Zumwalt said VYesL and along withIit add to the footnote on page 1 after the-word of whom while so serving acts for the corporate_body of the Joint Chiefs of Meyer commenteq that_was not bad but it looks like we are trying to sneak in in the fine print However he was not against trying _ The basic problem of what we want to-do is exactly opposite of what-he wants to do Admiral Moorer said we canft do any more Admiral Zumwalt said we have given more advice-today'than consent - General Meyer said this is better than some of_the other papers vIncluding the Chiefs in'the NCA_wOuld'provide more continuity General Palmer concern is the erosion Moorer commented that as-far as the What he planned to do was take the requirements up-to the council and obtain time1y debisions - - 5 The Chiefs went into ekebutive session_at 1620 to consider'nominations I r I 8- EYES ONLY I Elli IITMIVI l- n'I HIIL DocId131291446 This document is from the holdings of The National Security Archive Suite 701 Gelman Library The George Washington University 2130 H Street NW Washington D C 20037 Phone 202 994-7000 Fax 202 994-7005 nsarchiv@gwu edu