UNCLASSIFIED SECRET PAGE 01 ISLAMA ACTION NODS-00 INFO 10239 01 OF 04 051018Z ADS-00 000 W ------------------357021 0 051007Z JUL 82 ZFF-4 FM AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 5380 RELEASED IN PART B 1 l 4 B 1 4 D OCT-00 051024Z 22 SECRET SECTION 01 OF 04 ISLAMABAD 10239 NODIS DECAPTIONED FOR THE SECRETARY FROM AMBASSADOR WALTERS PASS TO S AL E O 12065 RDS-1 3 7 5 02 KING B OR-M TAGS PEPR PINR MNUC PK SUBJECT MY FIRST MEETING WITH PRESIDENT ZIA 1 S - ENTIRE TEXT DEPARTMENT REPEAT LONDON TO HOLD FOR AMBASSADOR WALTERS FOR DISCUSSIONS WITH BRITISH 2 SUMMARY MEETING FIRST ALONE AND THEN WITH AIDES I DESCRIBED TO ZIA OUR INFORMATION THE PROBLEM IT CREATED FOR BOTH OUR COUNTRIES AND WHAT WAS NEEDED IF WE WERE TO SALVAGE OUR RELATIONSHIP ZIA DENIED ANY KNOWLEDGE OF SUCH PAKISTANI EFFORTS TO ACQUIRE COMPONENTS FOR A NUCLEAR EXPLOSIVE DEVICE HE REITERATED HIS ASSURANCE NOT TO EMBARRASS US INDICATING THAT HE MEANT IT TO APPLY TO THE ENTIRE NUCLEAR ISSUE HE ALSO ADDED A NEW ASSURANCE THAT PAKISTAN WAS NOT MANUFACTURING A DEVICE OF ANY KIND PEACEFUL OR OTHERWISE AFTER A LENGTHY EXCHANGE ON KANUPP SAFEGUARDS HE SAID THERE WERE LIMITS TO HOW FAR PAKISTAN WOULD GO WITH THE IAEA BUT THAT HE WOULD TRY TO KEEP THE BALL IN THE AGENCY'S COURT THE EXCHANGE ENDED WITH ZIA INVITING US TO DINNER MONDAY NIGHT TO CONTINUE SECRET SECRET PAGE 02 ISLAMA 10239 01 OF 04 051018Z THE DISCUSSION LATER I SAW FONMIN YAQUB ALONE CONVERSATION IS REPORTED BY SEPTEL 3 THAT ON JULY 4 1982 PRESIDENT ZIA UL HAQ RECEIVED ME AT UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE REVIEW AUTHORITY ARCHIE M BOLSTER CLASSIFICATION SECRET REASON 25Xl DECLASSIFY AFTER 5 JUL 2022 DATE CASE ID 02 NOV 2011 201100123 E6 UNCLASSIFIED HIS RESIDENCE IN RAWALPINDI FOR T ASS1Ji'Iffl UR CONVERSATION WE WERE ALONE LATER CHARGE KING AND DR GALLUCCI JOINED ME AND ZIA BROUGHT IN FOREIGN MINISTER YAQUB KHAN FINANCE MINISTER GHULAM ISHAQ KHAN MUNIR KHAN CHAIRMAN PAEC GENERAL ARIF AND NIAZ NAIK FOREIGN SECRETARY 4 DURING THAT PART OF THE CONVERSATION WHERE WE WERE ALONE I THANKED PRESIDENT ZIA FOR RECEIVING ME ON SUCH SHORT NOTICE AND HANDED HIM THE PRESIDENT'S LETTER HE READ IT CAREFULLY AND EXPRESSED HIS APPRECIATION FOR IT I SAID THAT WHILE IN THE PAST I HAD BEEN GIVEN A NUMBER OF DIFFICULT MISSIONS THIS ONE WAS THE MOST DIFFICULT OF ALL THE SUBJECT WAS INTELLIGENCE OF AN INCONTROVERTIBLE NATURE WE HAD RECEIVED THAT THE PAKISTANIS OR PEOPLE PURPORTING TO REPRESENT THEM HAD TRANSFERRED DESIGNS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR NUCLEAR WEAPON COMPONENTS TO PURCHASING AGENTS IN SEVERAL COUNTRIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THESE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPONENTS FABRICATED FOR PAKISTAN I DID NOT FEEL IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO DEBATE THIS EVIDENCE BUT I MUST TELL HIM THAT OUR LAW REQUIRES US WHEN WE OBTAIN SUCH INFORMATION TO NOTIFY THE CONGRESS I WOULD LEAVE A COPY OF THAT LAW WITH HIM 5 I WISHED FIRST TO APPRISE HIM OF THE SUBJECT WHICH I HAD COME TO DISCUSS SO THAT HE COULD DECIDE WHETHER TO PURSUE IT ALONE WITH ME OR WHETHER HE WANTED TO HAVE SOME OF HIS ADVISORS IN IF THE LATTER WERE THE CASE I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE CHARGE KING AND DR GALLUCCI JOIN ME SECRET SECRET PAGE 03 SLAMA 10239 01 OF 04 051018Z HE SAID THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT I HAD TO SAY AND WOULD THEN LIKE TO HAVE HIS ADVISORS COME IN 6 I SAID THAT AS A SOLDIER I KNEW HOW DIFFICULT WHAT I WAS ASKING WOULD BE I KNEW THE MATHEMATICS AND THE DEPLOYMENT OF FORCES I THEN CAREFULLY WENT THROUGH THE TALKING POINTS I HAD BROUGHT FROM WASHINGTON WHEN I CONCLUDED HE SAID THAT PAKISTAN DID NOT HAVE A WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM HE DID NOT DOUBT THAT PRESIDENT REAGAN HAD EVIDENCE HE CONSIDERED INCONTROVERTIBLE BUT HE COULD REPEAT TO ME THE ASSURANCES THAT HE HAD PREVIOUSLY GIVEN TO UNDERSECRETARY BUCKLEY HE WOULD NOT DEVELOP A NUCLEAR WEAPON AND WOULD NOT EXPLODE A NUCLEAR DEVICE I SAID THAT AS FAR AS THE IMPACT ON CONGRESS WAS CONCERNED THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NUCLEAR UNCLASSIFIED EXPLOSIVE AND A NUCLEAR WEAPON PROG CLJ A_ JF'iJ DESTROY ANY CHANCE OF OUR OBTAINING CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL FOR OUR LARGE MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR ASSISTANCE PROGRAM FOR PAKISTAN 7 I KNEW OF THE COOPERATION PAKISTAN WAS GIVING US IN CERTAIN AREAS WE WANTED TO GO AHEAD WITH THE AID PROGRAM BECAUSE WE WERE CONVINCED OF THE IMPORTANCE OF A STRONG STABLE FRIENDLY AND PROSPEROUS PAKISTAN MRS GANDHI WAS COMING TO WASHINGTON SOON AND HE COULD BE SURE THAT WE WOULD MAKE UNMISTAKABLY CLEAR TO HER OUR VIEWS ON THE IMPORTANCE OF PAKISTAN HE SAID THAT HE FELT IT WOULD BE EXTRAORDINARILY HELPFUL IF WE WOULD DO THIS 8 PRESIDENT ZIA THEN SAID THAT HE COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT THESE DESIGNS COULD HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO FOREIGN PURCHASING OR MANUFACTURING AGENTS WITHOUT HIS KNOWING IT AND HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY SUCH WEAPONS DEVELOP- SECRET NNN SECRET PAGE 01 SLAMA ACTION NODS-00 INFO 10239 02 OF 04 051020Z OCT-00 ADS-00 000 W ------------------357027 0 051007Z JUL 82 ZFF-4 FM AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 5381 051021Z 17 SECRET SECTION 02 OF 04 ISLAMABAD 10239 NODIS UNCLASSIFIED FCIR THE SECRETARY FROM AMBASSADOR tASSIFIED PASS TO S AL E O 12065 RDS-1 3 7 5 02 KING B OR-M TAGS PEPR PINR MNUC PK SUBJECT MY FIRST MEETING WITH PRESIDENT ZIA MENT PROGRAMS PAKISTAN MIGHT NOT BE A LARGE OR IMPORTANT COUNTRY BUT IT WAS AN HONORABLE ONE AND HE COULD GIVE HIS WORD OF HONOR AS A SOLDIER THAT THEY WOULD NOT DEVELOP MUCH LESS EXPLODE A NUCLEAR WEAPON OR EXPLOSIVE DEVICE 9 I THEN MADE CLEAR THAT WE WERE NOT IN ANY WAY ASKING PAKISTAN TO GIVE UP ITS NUCLEAR ENERGY DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM WE WERE CONCERNED ONLY WITH WEAPONS OR EXPLOSIVE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS LIKEWISE UNSAFEGUARDED REPROCESSING WAS OF SERIOUS CONCERN TO US I THEN GAVE HIM THE LIST FROM THE BRIEFING BOOK OF THE THINGS WE WERE NOT REPEAT NOT ASKING PAKISTAN TO GIVE UP I ALSO HANDED HIM A NON PAPER SUMMARIZING THE TALKING POINTS I USED IN SPEAKING TO HIM I TOLD HIM THAT IT WAS CONCEIVABLE THAT SOME ZEALOUS SUBORDINATES MIGHT HAVE SENT THESE DESIGNS ABROAD WITHOUT HIS AUTHORITY HE SAID THAT HE WAS SURE IT HAD NOT HAPPENED BUT HE WOULD SECRET SECRET PAGE 02 SLAMA 10239 02 OF 04 051020Z CLARIFY THIS MATTER WITH HIS SUBORDINATES COMMENT EITHER HE REALLY DOES NOT RNOW OR HE IS THE MOST SUPERB AND PATRIOTIC LIAR I HAVE EVER MET 10 AT THIS POINT THE ADDITIONAL MEMBERS BOTH U S AND PAKISTANI JOINED US AND THE DISCUSSION CONTINUED ONCE AGAIN I WENT OVER THE TALKING POINTS AND PRESIDENT ZIA REPEATED IN THEIR PRESENCE WHAT HE HAD ALREADY TOLD ME 11 PRESIDENT ZIA THEN ASKED MUNIR KHAN TO SPEAK TO THE KANUPP SAFEGUARDS ISSUE KHAN BEGAN BY OBSERVING THAT IN APRIL OF LAST YEAR THE AGENCY HAD ASKED PAKISTAN TO DO CERTAIN THINGS AT KANUPP AND THAT BY JANUARY OF THIS YEAR ESSENTIALLY ALL ISSUES WERE RESOLVED HE SAID THAT IN FEBRUARY IAEA DIRECTOR GENERAL BLIX THEREFORE GAVE PAKISTAN A GOOD REPORT BUT IN JUNE SOMEHOW PAKISTAN HAD BEEN CHARACTERIZED AS UNCOOPERATIVE KHAN EXPLAINED THIS CHANGE AS THE RESULT OF PRESSURE BEING APPLIED TO UNCLASSIFIED THE AGENCY TO TWIST PAKISTAN HE S A I I F I E D COUNTRIES FOR UNKN'OWN REASONS WERE PUSHING BLIX TO CORNER AND HARASS PAKISTAN AND KEEP PAKISTAN UP IN THE AIR I I Bl KHAN WENT ON SAYING THAT NOT A SINGLE FUEL ELEMENT HAD TURNED UP MISSING AFTER A THOROUGH INVENTORY AND THAT IT WOULD TAKE SOME 250 ELEMENTS TO FABRICATE EVEN A SINGLE NUCLEAR DEVICE I Bl SECRET SECRET PAGE 03 SLAMA 10239 02 OF 04 051020Z Bl 12 GALLUCCI RESPONDED BY SAYING HE DID NOT THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO GO INTO THE DETAILS OF WHAT THE AGENCY HAD ASKED FOR OR THE MERITS OF THE PAKISTANI RESPONSE HE SAID THAT IN THE FIRST INSTANCE IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT PAKISTAN AGREE TO DO THAT WHICH THE AGENCY DETERMINED AS NECESSARY TO PERMIT IT TO SAFEGUARD KANUPP THIS ISSUE HAD BECOME A POLITICAL MATTER THAT AFFECTED THE INTERESTS OF PAKISTAN AND THE UNITED STATES IN ADDITION TO THE WELL BEING OF THE IAEA HE NOTED THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAD CHARACTERIZED THE NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND THE IAEA AS A SERIOUS GOOD-FAITH ATTEMPT OF THE PARTIES TO REACH AN AGREEMENT ON SAFEGUARDS MEASURES WHEN IT ARGUED FOR THE WAIVER OF THE SYMINGTON AMENDMENT AND THE FOREIGN ASSISTANCE PROGRAM FOR PAKISTAN LAST YEAR HE SAID THAT CONGRESS WOULD CERTAINLY BE VERY CONCERNED IF THE ISSUE REMAINED UNRESOLVED MUCH LONGER ON THE ISSUE OF THE RENEGOTIATION OF THE AGREEMENT GALLUCCI SAID THAT HE THOUGHT PAKISTAN COULD AGREE TO THE MEASURES REQUIRED BY THE IAEA UNDER THE EXISTING ARRANGEMENTS BUT IF IT PREFERRED TO RENEGOTIATE THE SUBSIDIARY ARRANGEMENTS IT SHOULD DO SO HE ALSO OBSERVED THAT THE CANADIANS CERTAINLY INTERPRET THE SAFEGUARDS PROVISIONS OF THEIR AGREEMENT AS SURVIVING INDEPENDENT OF ANY CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION TO CONTINUE FUEL SUPPLY FINALLY HE SAID THAT THE US HAD NOT PRESSURED THE AGENCY OVER KANUPP AND THAT UNCLASSIFIED IT HAD TAKEN THE SAME POSITION PRI L 'SS JFI IT HAD PUBLICLY IN THE BOARD THAT IS OF SUPPORTING THE AGENCY IN ITS EFFORTS TO OBTAIN THE SAFEGUARDS MEASURES SECRET NNN SECRET ISLAMA PAGE 01 ACTION NODS-00 10239 03 OF 04 051022Z ADS-00 000 W ------------------357050 0 051007Z JUL 82 ZFF-4 FM AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 5382 INFO OCT-00 051025Z 10 SECRET SECTION 03 OF 04 ISLAMABAD 10239 NODIS FOR THE SECRETARY FROM AMBASSADOR WALTERS PASS TO S AL IT JUDGED NECESSARY TO ADEQUATELY SAFEGUARD KANUPP BEGIN COMMENT THE KANUPP DISCUSSION WAS ALLOWED TO RUN ON FOR SOME TIME AND APPEARED FOR THE PAKISTANIS A WELCOME DIVERSION FROM THE MAIN ISSUE TO WHICH THEY HAD BEEN ASKED TO RESPOND END COMMENT 13 AT THIS POINT TION AND SAID THAT FROM THE TECHNICAL GOVERNMENT'S POINT WHETHER RIGHTLY OR PRESIDENT ZIA BROKE INTO THE CONVERSAWE HAD HEARD MUNIR'S POINT OF VIEW SIDE NOW HE WOULD GIVE US THE OF VIEW FROM THE POLITICAL SIDE WRONGLY PAKISTAN HAD ACCEPTED SAFE- UNCLASSIFIED GUARDS·AND WOULD CONTINUE TO HONOR q E I l l i D EVEN GO ALONG WITH SOME OF THE IAEA'S UNREASONABLE REQUESTS PAKISTAN WOULD EVEN BE WILLING TO HAVE A THIRD PARTY LOOK AT DIFFERENCES OF OPINION GOP WOULD DO ITS BEST TO MAKE SAFEGUARD AGREEMENTS WORK BUT BEYOND A CERTAIN POINT ZIA TWICE SAID THIS BUT NEVER MADE CLEAR BEYOND WHAT POINT OR WHAT IT IS PAKISTAN WOULD NOT AGREE TO ALL THAT WAS CLEAR WAS THAT THERE WAS A LIMIT BEYOND WHICH PAKISTAN WOULD NOT GO WHILE IAEA MIGHT CLAIM IT IS NOT ABLE TO ASSURE THAT KANUPP IS SECRET SECRET PAGE 02 ISLAMA 10239 03 OF 04 051022Z PROPERLY SAFEGUARDED HE COULD ASSURE US IT IS HE CONCLUDED BY SAYING HOWEVER THAT PAKISTAN WOULD TRY TO KEEP THE BALL IN THE IAEA'S COURT 14 AT THIS POINT GHULAM ISHAQ WHO HAD NOT PREVIOUSLY SPOKEN SAID HE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHY US BY INSISTING THAT IAEA MUST BE THE JUDGE OF SAFEGUARDS PUT PAK-US RELATIONS AT THE MERCY OF AN INTERNATIONAL AGENCY SUBJECT TO ALL KINDS OF PRESSURES MR GALLUCCI REPLIED THAT WE SAW THINGS DIFFERENTLY WHILE WE ARE AWARE THAT IAEA DID NOT ALWAYS PERFORM EFFECTIVELY WE DID BELIEVE IT ACTED IN GOOD FAITH GHULAM ISHAQ THEN SAID THAT IF IAEA CONCERNS HAD OFTEN PROVED TO BE BASED ON LESS PRECISE INFORMATION THAN THE IAEA THOUGHT THEN HOW COULD PAKISTAN BE SURE USG HAD INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE THAT PERSONS PURPORTING TO REPRESENT GOP WERE ATTEMPTING FABRICATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPONENTS ABROAD ZIA ADDED I CAN REALLY TELL YOU THIS SOUNDS QUITE UNBELIEVABLE I REPLIED THAT OUR INTELLIGENCE CAME FROM SEVERAL SOURCES AND FROM SEVERAL COUNTRIES GHULAM ISHAQ QUESTIONED WHETHER THIS MADE THE INTELLIGENCE ANY BETTER SINCE SUCH A SERIOUS CHARGE WAS BEING MADE DESPITE PRESIDENT ZIA'S ASSURANCES THE ACCUSED SURELY HAD A RIGHT TO SEE SOME OF THE EVIDENCE IT WAS QUITE UNBELIEVABLE THAT GOP WOULD DO ANYTHING SO STUPID AS TO ASK TO RECEIVE BIDS FROM VARIOUS PLACES ABROAD FOR FABRICATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPONENTS 15 I REPLIED THAT AS A FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE I KNEW THAT WE HAD THE CAPABILITY TO MONITOR SUCH DEVELOPMENTS THE PRESIDENT HAD EXAMINED THE EVIDENCE AND HAD FOUND IT SERIOUS ENOUGH TO ASK ME IMMEDIATELY TO VISIT PAKISTAN HE CERTAINLY WOULD NOT SECRET UNCLASSIFIED UNCLASSIFIED SECRET PAGE 03 ISLAMA 10239 03 OF 04 051022Z HAVE DONE SO IF THERE HAD BEEN ANY QUESTION GHULAM ISHAQ SAID THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE SERIOUSLY OUR PRESIDENT SENDING A SPECIAL EMISSARY BUT WE SHOULD TAKE SERIOUSLY ASSURANCES OF THEIR PRESIDENT THAT PAKISTAN WOULD DO NOTHING TO EMBARRASS THE US GOVERNMENT I SAID THAT THESE GOP ASSURANCES WOULD OF COURSE BE REPORTED TO CONGRESS I SAID THAT I WOULD REPORT TODAY'S MEETING TO WASHINGTON AND ASK IF THERE WERE ANY MORE INFORMATION WE COULD PROVIDE 16 AT THIS POINT ZIA SAID THAT HE HAD GIVEN HIS WORD THAT PAKISTAN WOULD NOT EMBARRASS THE US GOVERNMENT AND THAT PAKISTAN IS NOT MANUFACTURING A DEVICE OF ANY KIND PEACEFUL OR OTHERWISE AND I WILL REPEAT THESE ASSURANCES TO YOU WHEN I SEE YOU TOMORROW ZIA REPEATED THAT STEPS TAKEN BY PURPORTED AGENTS OF PAKISTAN COULD NOT HAVE BEEN TAKEN WITHOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE AND CERTAINLY NOT WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OF SOMEONE IN THE ROOM AND NO ONE IN THE ROOM HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WE SAID WE HAD UNCOVERED MUNIR KHAN NODDED IN AGREEMENT 17 ZIA ENDED THE CONVERSATION BY SAYING HE WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE MATTER AGAIN AFTER HE HAD LOOKED INTO IT AND SUGGESTED THAT I JOIN HIM FOR DINNER THE NEXT EVENING JULY 5 AT WHICH NO ONE WOULD BE PRESENT BEYOND THOSE WHO WERE PRESENT FOR TODAY'S MEETING I SAID I ACCEPTED THE INVITATION WITH PLEASURE AND LOOKED FORWARD TO A FURTHER DISCUSSION THE CONVERSATION WAS CORDIAL THROUGHOUT ZIA WAS EXTRAORDINARILY COURTEOUS RELAXED SECRET UNCLASSIFIED UNCLASSIFIED NNN SECRET SLAMA PAGE 01 ACTION NODS-00 INFO 10239 04 OF 04 051022Z OCT-00 ADS-00 000 W ------------------357051 0 051007Z JUL 82 ZFF-4 FM AME l1BASSY ISLAMABAD TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 5383 051023Z 10 SECRET SECTION 04 OF 04 ISLAMABAD 10239 NODIS FOR THE SECRETARY FROM AMBASSADOR WALTERS PASS TO S AL AND COMPOSED THERE WAS NO OUTBURST OF AGGRIEVED INNOCENCE HE TOOK THE WHOLE MATTER SOMEWHAT BETTER THAN I HAD EXPECTED KING SECRET UNCLASSIFIED