Classified Keeping close the nation's secrets cbsnews com news classified-documents-secret-top-secret The documents spread out on the carpet at Mar-a-Lago their classification markings clearly visible are tiny drops in a tsunami of secrets kept by the U S government CBS News national security correspondent David Martin asked John Fitzpatrick who managed the flow of classified documents in both the Obama and Trump White Houses Do you have any estimate of how many classified documents there are That's really unknowable he replied Fitzpatrick said the last reliable count was taken when most classified documents existed only on paper They were in the tens of millions of documents a year he said Has it become easier or harder to classify information asked Martin As a practical matter it has become easier The proliferation of classified computer networks provides an environment where the proliferation of classified material increases The 9 11 attacks and all the subsequent alarms of terrorist plots against the homeland brought with them a surge of classification which even worries the person in charge of keeping secrets national intelligence director Avril Haines who testified to Congress that 1 6 overclassification is a national security problem Earlier this year she wrote Deficiencies in the current classification system undermine our national security by making it difficult to share information with allies and the public CBS News It's a fairly arresting statement said Martin The system designed to keep national security secrets is undermining national security I agree with her said Fitzpatrick There's a culture of classification Protecting secrets is always better than releasing secrets It's a false binary but it's the way people do it Tom Blanton director of the National Security Archive said Most secrecy is not about real damage It's about preventing one form of embarrassment or another by the government For the past 35 years the National Security Archive has used the Freedom of Information Act to pry loose boxes upon boxes of previously-classified document We've seen probably on the order of 10 to 20 million pages of declassified U S government documents over the years Blanton said The walls are lined with some of his favorites He showed one to Martin It's a piece of internal CIA email about the torture program and specifically about how they destroyed the videotapes of the water boarding If tapes of the CIA's waterboarding of captured al Qaida operative Abu Zubaidah ever became public the memo said they would make us look terrible it would be 'devastating' for us 2 6 Blanton said This document would have stayed classified indefinitely under the CIA's sources and methods protection Do you file Freedom of Information Acts requests on a daily basis About 1 500 a year How many people are there out there who can classify documents Almost 5 million Today's classification system grew out of the secret project to build the atom bomb arguably the greatest secret ever The head of the project Lt Gen Leslie Groves later wrote he was keeping it secret from the Germans the Japanese the Russians all other nations and those who would interfere which included Congress What General Groves created in the national security classification system was a big bang and that universe is still expanding said Blanton The three basic levels of classification are confidential secret and top secret Confidential information would cause damage to the national security if it got out secret would cause serious damage and top secret exceptionally grave damage   Beyond top secret there is SCI which stands for sensitive compartmented information also known as special access programs Those are considered the most closely held secrets of the government Fitzpatrick said Do you have any idea how many Special Access Programs there are asked Martin Ultimately you're talking about hundreds he replied Each special access program has its own code name Here's a once-top secret memo directing that satellite photographs must be handled in a separate compartment known as TALENT-KEYHOLE   A document like this would be kept in a room called a SCIF or sensitive compartmented information facility There are physical standards for locking them for alarming them and soundproofing them Fitzpatrick said The best known SCIF is the White House Situation Room where the president meets with his national security advisors All the presidential libraries are equipped with SCIFs but there is no SCIF at Mar-a-Largo Martin asked Does the President of the United States have a security clearance The answer is no said Fitzpatrick The president derives his authority to see any classified information from his constitutional authorities 3 6 Is it assumed that the president has a need to know absolutely everything It is Can the President just flat out order a document to be declassified Yes The president's authority to classify or declassify information is derived from his own constitutional authority When he was president Donald Trump declassified the transcript of his phone call with Ukraine's President Zelensky asking for help in digging up dirt on Hunter Biden All of its original classification markings have been crossed out and it is clearly stamped unclassified The unclassified report on President Trump's phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky in which he sought a favor in exchange of military aid   CBS News Compare that with the documents the FBI spread out on the floor after their search of Mar-aLargo   4 6 Some of the classified documents found at Trump's residence in Florida   Department of Justice There's not a line through those markings said Blanton There's not a stamp saying 'This was released on X-date authority of somebody ' Even when the president says 'I want something declassified ' there's a whole process it has to go through Most documents are not declassified until long after they have been shipped to a presidential library like the Lyndon B Johnson Library in Austin Texas where all the papers of his administration are stored – and where more than half a century later some still remain classified   Blanton recently asked the George W Bush Library to declassify the notes of the president's prep sessions for his first meeting with Vladimir Putin in 2001 Great moment in history You know this is 22 years ago when Putin was still our friend Might even do us some good today in figuring out Putin's grievances and maybe some off-ramps out of this current tragedy in Ukraine that Putin started The National Security Archive filed its FOIA request in January of this year Nice people down at the George W Bush Library in Dallas said 'Sorry to tell you Mr Blanton but it's going to be 12 years before they get around to it ' Martin asked Which side is winning The forces of classification or the forces of declassification Oh the forces of classification have long won Blanton replied 5 6     For more info Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines National Security Archive Freedom of Information Act Electronic Reading Room cia gov     produced by Mary Walsh Editor Lauren Barnello   Story 6 6