2395 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT PARTICIPANTS The President The Vice President James A Baker III Secretary of State Brent Scowcroft Assistant to the President for the National Security Affairs David Gompert Senior Director NSC Staff Notetaker Helmut Kohl Chancellor Peter Hartmann Security Advisor to the Chancellor Walter Neuer Director of the Chancellor's Office DATE TIME AND PLACE March 21 1992 11 50am - 4 00pm Camp David The President Helmut it is a pleasure to have you here We could start with our bilateral relationship if you like or we could talk about G-7 issues Of course we have to get to the GATT Chancellor Kohl Thank you for this hospitality George We appreciate this quiet talk i these turbulent times My fingers are crossed for you U The President I think things will be alright is the slow economy U The big problem Chancellor Kohl We have the same phenomenon in Europe Let's be frank Let me describe the situation in Europe for you politically Within three weeks there are important elections in the UK France and Italy I think that John Major will get a majority U The President I hope you are right U Chan·cellor Kohl Your concerns about the other man are justified But the voters will prefer Major The Tory party-is not so popular The question is whether personalities will emerge as more important than party politics in the final weeks On the basis of personality John Major is certainly more Declassify on OADR DECLASSIFIED IN PART PER E O 13526 d 008- C OS- '1 tr ' t•lto 2 The Italian elections are on April 5 They are even more difficult to predict The reason is that there is a general grass-roots movement against the parties Cossiga has started this himself from the presidency I think the federalist element within Italy is going to be strengthened I welcome this for Europe It's what we have in Germany of course and I think things will be moving in the same direction in other countries fl Jacques Delors told me that France also has to move toward federalism He said that to me in Paris of all places The new generation won't accept one-person rule Life is more complex too complex for one person to comtnand everything So highly centralized government is going to become more difficult Take Italy where northern and southern Italy are so vastly --------- 'tiff erE'rnt - --S-o-trrere---wi--i--i-be pressures to try to put-t nJ-ngs more on a local basis The President What is the view now in Europe about the Alliance and the EC Chancellor Kohl I am coming to that The Italians pin their hopes on the regions of the EC getting more rights for their region This won't change the foundation of Italian politics but it will lead to changes within Italy ¢ Now as far as the French elections tomorrow are concerned these are only regional elections but the implications are significant Because of their proportionate representation the French elections give an accurate view of the various segments So it is going to be very interesting The President I understand that Le Pen on one extreme and the Greens on the other are going to become stronger 7 Chancellor Kohl The most significant result will be the heavy losses experienced by the Socialists These are just my predictions I think the Socialists will be down to 20% Chirac and Giscard together will be around 32-35% Communists 8-10% The Greens·12-14% Incidentally Mitterrand never believed me when I told him to keep his eyes on the Greens· So now we have two Gre The ds other 3 hard to predict but my guess is that he will get between 12 and 15% Its all too easy to say that they are neo-Nazis They are really populists They complain about taxes they complain about Algerians they complain about anything else that people are upset about They even complained about the new hunting rights Le Pen protested a new law affecting the hunters They appeal to this kind of thing now he has all of the hunters on his side Matters like the future of NATO are absolutely irrelevant to peo le like this Le Pen 1 a crucible for discontent - - - • -' - -h r- a • •• - - - • If the election turns out as I suspect there going to be a big hangover on Monday morning There will be a second round in another eight days but it won't change the outcome This will bring down the overnrnent • -- · · Now in Germany on April 5 we have Laender elections In Schleswig-Holstein and in Baden-Wuertemmberg These elections won't be too easy but not too difficult either I'm really looking ahead to 1994 We are seeing incredible changes taking place in Germany We've already privatized 3 000 of 6 000 of the East German state firms from the communist system This has been an enormous undertaking $ From 1949 when we launched the Marshall Plan to 1953 before we landed on our feet it took a good four years Then the only support we got was the money from you So in a way the East Germans have it easier We are giving enormous support Psychologically however it's different After the war all of us Germans were in a bad situation Today we have a sharp contrast between wealth on one side of the street and poverty on the other Let me tell you an anecdote I was in a village in the East recently They used to have one telephone for every 200 flats Now the Deutsche Bundespost has installed as many telephones in the former GDR in one year as they had installed in all prior years But now those without phones are much more resentful than they use to be That is the paradox g'J S SCRE'f 4 I think that in another 3 to 4 years everything will be okay Our economy is difficult now but we are still growing at 2% The growth of the new Laender is at 10% Inflation will soon be brought down under 4% A big problem is unemployment in the new Laender But the greatest danger of all that I face is the fight that I have with the trade unions -- both public and private sector unions This is the toughest battle in 10 years Right now I am having the most difficulty with the public sector They want a 9% wage increase and I am offering 3 5% which is roughly the inflation rate So we may have big strikes in store for us But I won't retreat Th President Is the SPD against you on this Z Chancellor Kohl Well they say yes and no But they will certainly blame me if there are strikes The situation is somewhat like what we had before the Pershing missile deployment With people out in the streets the question is who is in charge Will it be the will of the streets that prevails or is it the government There is a principle involved µ31 The President Tell me about the changing perceptions in Germany about U S troops and NATO Chancellor Kohl Actually the latest opinion polls look better than 1990 We now have a clear majority in favor of maintaining a U S presence When the question is asked who is the most important guarantor or German security % said the u - - 1 8 i----said France 8% said Britain The question is then asked should the Americans stay The clear majority says yes Of course there will always be local complaints but now even at the local level there more interest in maintaining the presence Foreign troops in Germany have been declining so fast that it has had a local economic impact If you can believe it the mayors come and tell me that they want compensation for this fl' But George I think it would be foolish for think it would not be in your interest To understand you want to reduce but it would ericgg-Jnterest I can Now let's turn to the GATT We have some notes and some ideas we developed on the airplane that I would like to share with you paper attached The first point I would make is that we can't negotiate here The second point is that we in Europe all want an agreement As y9u will see from our paper there are three problems export subsidies cereal substitutes -- which just cannot be unlimited -- and income supports We have to come to some form of agreement I have been preaching this message to Mitterrand lately This paper reflects where we are in Europe I think it reflects the view of people like John Major Apart from the official talks our people need to get to work on this Feiter is up on all of this in fact he is now in Washington 5 talking to one of your people Let's face it we can forget about the developing countries if we cannot get a GATT agreement J The President We want to get a deal done It is in everybody's interest But I have political problems here too Let me show you the charts I have that illustrate the problem What we have to do is figure out how to bring this to a conclusion We have proposed a safe box so that you could new introduce the new payments We have been very forthcoming on this It's a major American concession But we have trouble on corn glutens on rebalancing that it is the only thing that sustains our exports will be very tough for me politically j The fact is So this Chancellor Kohl We are not asking for cuts You have a problem with our wheat exports But we have a problem with these cereal substitutes We are only asking for a freeze at the current level 5 Secretary Baker Let me summarize our probl°em We are trying to find a way to bridge the differences But different EC members seem to have different interests 7 The Dunkel paper is public Even that was barely acceptable to us It has formed a base line It is hard for us to walk away from that now that we have been forthcoming on the safe box which we understand is good for Germany The EC would avoid any cuts on internal supports altogether for two years We have also offered just to put off internal supports This is a one-sided agreement If we do that we have no flexibility on export subsidies Your paper doesn't even address what we have done We made a significant proposal which we understood to be important to many members We have also suggested that we defer any action on internal supports for two years as long as we agree to negotiate the reductions by the end of two years We can't move away from the Dunkel text on the level of subsidized exports jf Chancellor Kohl I want to make clear that there is a single European position -- not just on GATT-but on other matters What I don't understand on the second point is that we are not asking for reductions but for a freeze For us the problem is that we are going to be reducing our export subsidies and getting nothing in return Secretary Baker David would you like to explain the problem U David Gompert Mr Chancellor the negotiators of the EC Commission have made it clear to us consistently that the EC's highest priority is internal supports We have therefore as the President and the Secretary have explained worked vigorously and have made significant concessions to address what we have understood to be the highest priority As a consequence we have laid out a plan that would permit the EC to implement its new 6 program of income supports under a GATT agreement But having made these moves in response to the EC's stated priorities we a e in no position now to offer further concessions zj Chance 11 or Kohl Let me think out loud What if we were to find a system whereby we tied a certain level of wheat exports to your level of exports to the EC of cereal substitutes If we were to have deeper cuts in wheat exports this would affect the level of cereal substitutes This would be a flexible formula providing a linkage between the two The nightmare is that we would reach an agreement on a reduction in exports only to find ourselves faced with a flood of noncereal imports 2' The President Perhaps we should leave things at this I have to be guided by my experts I am not really ready to talk about this kind of detail 8'J Cha·ncellor Kohl I understand that completely I just wanted to offer some specific ideas to make it clear that I am personally committed I could leave Feiter in Washington or I could send % him back Secretary Baker I would just like to make clear that even if the President were to determine that we could look at linkage of the sort that you suggest it would have to be based on an export subsidy level close to the Dunkel paper we cannot give up on all three of these issues We can be thinking about all of this 8 will have to examine where we go need to try - - - - c official The experts have You and I are not experts We have Perhaps the most intelligent course back to Washington We will get in 'A their own vested interests to make the decisions would be to have Feiter come touch with Brent about this The next issue we need to talk about and need to cooperate on closely is the environment This is a big political issue in all of our countries I don't want us to meet in Munich with a detrimental effect from this issue We have to cooperate closely I have another paper I just want to leave with you attached $' The President Our experts are talking on this and they should continue talking I believe that there are some areas in which t e U S and Germany are moving together such as forests Now I have to say that we have a major problem with this Rio Conference Given my schedule and the campaign I can't commit at this time and I certainly I am not going to commit to things that will halt our economy problems Maybe our experts can resolve these But we don't want a big bill at the end of the day · S SCRE P 7 W will continue to work in the run-up at this UN meeting The U S and Germany should work very closely together on this This conference is at a bad time for me politically · Chancellor Kohl As a friend George my advice is that if we prepare for the Conference carefully we can get a partial victory then you should definitely go This environmental subject has real appeal With regard to the management and preservation of forests I think we will be in agreement There may be a problem over finances especially from the Third World countries But the question is whether there can be compromises in certain areas If we don't go we will definitely be attacked We should have something to show up for The President How long will it last U Chancellor Kohl Three days but actually I think I will be able get it ·done in two days U The President Well we are talking about it I've told Coller that I may have problems with the timing I agree that it is a good political subject But I can't go to Rio and get myself embarrassed because we can't satisfy the demands of the LDCs and the environmentalist advocates We have a particular problem with global warming commitments All things being equal I would like to go but I need to see more results from the working group first If I am not there you can always blame things on me e' Chancellor Kohl Well you know that we can play different roles · In fact I think we could play the ball for you from Europe I'd do that for you if you would like Politically I think those who want to save what God has given us will do well µ' ' The President Maybe so but not if I am criticized by accepting far-out proposals I also think that it is important that the World Bank has control over the cost ft Chancellor Kohl I think it will be about $3 billion but-the timeframe for this $3 billion is not clear I definitely want to avoid having the U S and Europe on two different sides ej The President I want to avoid the same thing U Chancellor Kohl Now with respect to the G-7 summit itself I think the Sherpas are doing okay We can always talk if there is a problem '$ The President Yeltsin ask me to discuss this with you do something like we did with Gorbachev y8 Can we Chancellor Kohl I will be open with you about this I will tell them that I will decide in a few weeks I won't decide now I have a concern about the CIS The Kiev conference looks like it was a failure What do we do in May if there is no CIS The President Russia CZ Chancellor Kohl The President Well I think in that case we have to deal with Yes but what about Kravchuk That's true C t5 And Nazarbayev _ n Yeltsin is very sensitive to comparisons to Gorbachev I'm not arguing this one way or another We may want to have him come · afterwards as Gorbachev did He may want to be there for the whole time 8' Chancellor Kohl But George he is going to ask you for money The President Chancellor Kohl dramatic V He already has But at Munich his request will be much more The President I'm not sure what we will do if he co es with a huge demand $ Chancellor Kohl And the problem for me is what will I do about Poland Czechoslovakia Hungary Bulgaria Romania I say let's decide this in late April or early May ' Secretary Baker The longer you wait before deciding this the better But it is important to begin to develop criteria as a host between Russia and everyone else Maybe you could say that as Russia joins the IMF the size of its economy is the basis for their inclusion This might have some potential 5' Chancellor Kohl I don't think so not at the rate their economy is going We don't even know what's left of their economy Conversation resumed over lunch participants were the same Secretary Baker Let me ask about the four-power proposal the French have made We have resisted because of you and also because of the Italians who have been vehement The President told Mitterrand that it would be okay for us to proceed But then we proposed that this be done at the Under Secretary level and only once Now the French are still pushing for ministerial level Ji Chancellor Kohl Let me give you a frank answer whatever you want U · Jim Do The President I tried to help the man by giving him something on this I made him an offer We offered to compromise and now I am told that he is upset with our offer ¢ With regard to the CIS I spoke with Ter-Petrosian on NagornoKarabakh this morning They want a three-way group Armenia 9 Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh CSCE meeting Ter-Petrosian says think the Turks are in fact being Foreign Minister Cetin have had We will be ·supportive at the Turkey is not being fair We fair The-Armenian and Turkish good talks 5 Chancellor Kohl I view CIS developments skeptically There is a danger of these republics drifting apart This will have big effects in the economic and security fields Their economy can't work For 70 years there was a centralized economy which devised a division of labor among the old republics One republic provided coal another one provided wheat another one provided tanks I don't know how they will manage if they split up Another big problem is that their nuclear power plants are in terrible condition Even within the republics you've got these tendencies for splitting up such as Crimea and Tartarstan We have to try to help them We have to give them advice and new structures It is very much in our interest to do so I understand that there are 20 reactors that are worse than Chernobyl ' J The President There is not enough money in the world to take on that problem I am told that the technology is so bad that many of these reactors are not worth fixing Chancellor Kohl I told Gorbachev not to speculate abovt things getting worse and he has been pretty good about it We do hope for the success of Yeltsin l 81 Secretary Baker I spoke with Shevardnadze recently He is going back to Georgia as the new leader and he would like to set up diplomatic relations with us ft Chancellor Kohl On the Middle East I have to say that you risked a lot last year and now it is very important that we don't see you lose the peace The President Let me discuss Iraq and then the Arab-Israeli problem On Iraq they continue to cheat but now they are moving in the right direction again There is still good support based on internat1onal insistence that they comply with the resolutions So we have to keep the sanctions in· place and we have to keep the pressure on When King Hussein was here he said he was supporting the sanctions and the embargo but they· have a very leaky border We will have to make Saddam Hussein comply We could use force if need be but we certainly hope we don't have to On the Arab-Israel front we are still talking The Israeli hardline positions on settlements are counterproductive The President Listen I take great pride in the level of Jewish immigration · to Israel The American peop·le support us on the 10 housing loans by a factor of 80-20% general with Israel J Z How are your relations in Secretary Baker I am not sure that is right - I've heard that the newest immigrants from the former USSR are backing Labor because they believe that the policies that Likud has pursued are making it more ifficult to bring more Soviet immigrants 2' Chancellor Kohl The President Maghreb 0' Chancellor Kohl I hope you are right U We are also worrie9 about Algeria and the What about Iran y8 ' Secretary Baker We got a message recently that they wanted to have a discussion of economic relations on the side Our response is that we are prepared to discuss everything on a formal basis but we will not have a discussion of economic issues unless we talk about political issues too especially the question of state-sponsored terrorism ft' Chancellor Kohl I'm told that there is a concern here about Germany's policy on terrorism I want to tell you that there is absolutely no intention to change our position on the Hammadi brothers _I w nt to be clear I will not be blackmailed U The f re aidr o t That's good That will be well received hei e lll Pr aid s D t What is your view on Yugoslavia 11 Chancellor Kohl I think we are getting close now but the name Macedonia is still a problem e said that we cannot give that much time So the idea is that in early April we will go forward with Slovenia and Croatia and we should both recognize Bosnia Then we should ask the Greeks to work out the problem with Macedonia fl Chancellor Kohl I want to help Mitsotakis with the name ¢ Secretary Baker The Portuguese are trying to broker a deal They are making a very good effort They are exploring the question of the name 8' Chancellor Kohl I would like to help him but I cannot postpone this for six months That said it is important that we stabilize Mitsotakis' government Ihe President Chancellor Kohl de Klerk 2' I agree Mitsotakis is very important On South Africa we have to find a way to help The President I agree I think we have only one sanction left which is legislative Otherwise we will want to lift all ----- s anction ¢ - r - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ' - - - - - - - - - - Chancellor Kohl Is the question of your troop presence a divisive political issue here Ur The President No not too divisive The Democrats want to cut the defense more than we do and they will propose substantially fewer American troops in Europe But I don't think that the American people will take this view We have proposed forces on the order of 150 000 cjt Chancellor Kohl It's our feeling that it would be foolish if the Americans left We don't need to get into the figures here but a symbolic presence would make no sense You need to have a militarily significant capability I am convinced there will be more dramatic change in Europe Within another nine or ten months we will have a single market It will have an enormous effect 380 million people in one market In 1995 Sweden Finland Austria and probably Norway will enter I believe by the end of the century Switzerland will too Then there may be a break before Poland Hungary and Czechoslovakia· Gome in Not this decade In this situation it is important to have an American physical presence in Germany and in Europe but the rest of our relations should also be enlarged This is why I am proposing a German-American Academy of Sciences I think this German connection George could actually help you with the election You can use it to show that the United States benefits from your foreign policies ·I am convinced that within Europ an integration the French will gradually change their position in SSGREJf' 12 NATO You can feel that with Mitterrand 'The Franco-German corps is moving in that direction If Chirac or Delors becomes the next president we may have new opportunities I am prepared to let the optics go in one direction as long as the real developments go in the other direction But this is no reason to dim nish the U S presence We should have more links like cultural links We should recognize each other's diplomas for example £ The Presiqept With regard to the troops I will make a strong case It would be helpful if you say while you are here that it is important to have this presence Secretary Baker From our perspective the French attitude toward NATO is not helpful Bear in mind that the political 9ebate in the United States could turn toward bringing the boys home If it appears that elements in Europe don't want or don't count _on our presence it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy Whenever we advance ideas about NATO France is always negative Maybe this is just left over from the past but it makes things very difficult We have to renew NATO because without NATO there will be no U S presence Yet we always get French resistance $ Chancellor Kohl The This is true and its clear to all of us U President How will this French-German corps work Will it a s ' 'ned A 1 d-wh at ·about -th Hades-m±s-s- i±e-' ----'i o - ·- - - - - - ------u c -· 1t-A-'1'6 Chancellor Kohl The German part of the corps that has been NATO-assigned will remain NATO-assigned We think we know what is going to happen over time This will work out 8' The President Will tactical nuclear weapons be assigned also 7 Chancellor great cost In my own party there · this issue It is of Poland The President But if people here see developments outside of NATO they'll say we're not needed e1 Chancellor Kohl The world has changed Not long ago FOTL was the issue Thatcher attacked me for weakness Now the first issue of the NATO summit was food aid to the CIS From Lance to food aid to Russia Jews were not getting the food A German general solved this $ Secretary Baker In CSCE we are stressing all three baskets and don't want to lose flexibility We are face to face with the French proposal for a European security treaty We don't support it it would be counter-productive with NATO It also implies security guarantees all_ the way to the Chinese border We think 13 the U S and German views are same U S presence 2 It is directly related to Chancellor Kohl Europe shouldn't underestimate American strength Germans will be the last to do so We underestimated you twice in this century and won't make that mistake again ¢ The President There will be no turning inward for our presence there µ We'll stand up Following lunch and the departure of the Vice President Secretary Baker and David Gompert discussions resumed PARTICIPANTS · The President Chancellor Kohl Peter Hartmann Brent Scowcroft DATE TIME AND 'PLACE March 22 1992 3 00 - 4 00 pm camp David The President We have not talked much about what to do for the CIS and how to do it Chancellor Kohl We must maintain differentiation between two things what they need to do and what we need to do They have -------- t o-h-e-l-p-t-hem-s·e-1-v-es -h-ey-mu-s- aer w e i-r w-R-pe±-- i--E-i-e-a-l-eev r-s----wi thou t coming under our tutelage The Baltics are now independent But they belong together It would be a tragedy if they set up separate systems for currency customs etc Here is an easy but typical example The Scandinavians set aside $100M for the Baltics We will also help but the Nordic states are in the best position to help without arousing fears of domination It appears that things are going badly between Russia and the Ukraine and also with the Central Asia Republics CZ They all call me trying to establish separate The President status with us Chancellor Kohl Yes but they have no idea how to build separate economies The international financial institutions should be the basic means for helping them because Germany is at the ceiling of our bilateral aid % The President We are nearly at the same point I wanted to talk to you about the GAB Nick Brady says that it is set up for just this sort of thing What more reform do they need to do before we offer a stabilization fund Chancellor Kohl They have to know what they want Yeltsin wants to move fast Kravchuk is moving more slowly We can be of most help in providing technical know-how But there are many advisors there now and there is no coordination We should improve this This is very important We also should improve 14 SECRM our coordination within the international financial institutions Maybe we should use the Sherpas for this 2' The President We agree with you Russia needs to move on privatization in sectors such as energy They just don't seem to move There is almost instant hard currency to be made there We agree on the international financial institutions and we will try to get IMF replenishment through Congress This is a bad year for it but I sense that there is a better mood on the necessity to help CIS 2' Chancellor Kohl I recognize your problems here But can't you just point out that this is a repetition of 1945 We must also agree what points to make with the press and what remarks you think useful for me to make here 6 The President Clearly we should say that more reform is needed You could say that the U S is determined to do its part $ Chancellor Kohl No I just want to help and I am thinking out loud I wonder if I should say today is like 1945 when Germany was in terrible shape we received your aid and became a flourishing democracy Its an easy point for me to make $ The President I think we should make clear that we are supporting Yeltsin That Hoagland piece was very damaging GB-aMe 11--e-r-----Keh-l Yeg --e ze-n-Ge-E-Bac-hev-s-a r r1----a-id -I th-i --- our Sherpas can go over the ground-work this Z The fresident him $' Koehler is my man on Zoellick is mine and we have great confidence in JG Chancellor Kohl The President Munich % Perhaps the two can get together U The press will yell about Yeltsin coming to Chancellor Kohl That is not a problem The question is not just Yeltsin but G-7 coordination with the Commonwealth The President Chancellor Kohl Yeltsin will expect something $$ Yeltsin will participate one way or another The President meeting The more forthcoming the better but not in every Chancellor Kohl · I will call him on Monday The President U That is all you need to say to the press U Chancellor Kohl we could also say that we will be discussing this with all the others · 11 · S EGRSlr 15 The President Good They are all competing with each other in CIS especially Kravchuk 2 Chancellor Kohl Kravchuk will immediately say how about me and so will the East Europeans 8' The President Maybe we can find some rationale having to do with the eight largest economies % General Scowcroft That might include the Chinese g The President Maybe we could point to the eight largest democratic states Otherwise we will dilute the G-7 7 Chancellor Kohl The summits have become distorted we discuss every topic supposedly and spend most of our time on a communique we haven't even read 2'j The President What can we do about it U Chancellor Kohl I plan to send a letter to the G-7 along these lines Let's get a list of issues so we can really discuss them and not just read the old and new testament to _the press · 81 The President Yes the press looks for a discussion Who is up and who is down Maybe we should not even have a communique It's too bureaucratic Z Chancellor Kohl Mitterrand thinks the same way and Mulroney also 3 j I think Major The President ' I think the Japanese might have a different view This is the only forum for them Chancellor Kohl I like the Japanese Prime Minister but that should not affect this $ The ·President Why don't you send your letter to the rest of us What will you do about expanding the EC Z Chancellor Kohl There will be a natural limit in 1995 have Austria Sweden Finland and Norway if The President What about Turkey We will 8 Apart from Great Britain the most natural partner for the U S is Germany · we are very close together our ideas about the SECRE'i 16 economy religion and so on Having the U S as a close partner will reduce fears of Germany in Europe Close U S -German relations will not arouse fear from the smaller countries of the EC So after the elections we should talk we could do on a longterm basis Many Americans are already thinking along these lines They also observe how our new Laender are being transformed Our cooperation should go beyond the military We could also help you with Japan Now about Kinnoch it wouldn't change much in the EC It's mostly talk $ The Presi t the EC' Isn't Labor more inclined toward integration with Chancellor Kohl Not really Thatcher gave that impression The British problem is like ours and France's We have put an engine on a track Then we include countries who try to change track but the train goes right on At the practical level the c anges are already taking place In industry we already have European entities Nestle and Agnelli are fighting for Perrier All the companies including American companies are already integrating This is the reality of what is happening There is no way to retreat from Maastricht If I were American I would put all my eggs in this basket yS' Perhaps Feiter can come to Washington again on the 30th I am convinced that we could find a solution The biggest problem is rebalancing We can't leave this to experts We can let them do what they can I am not negotiating but we should conclude this ------ - -e--Br1e-G-f -Pr-i-l Ja e r-e- t-o-r e-w-e-mus-t compJ Qm __g e__ I-w J i - - - - di scus s this with my colleagues V · The President Should we say that our experts will meet 2' Chancellor Kohl No I don't want to relieve the Commission from its responsibilities We need a GATT agreement in order to boost the world economy and this is better than aid for the Third •World • Let's call each other whenever it may be necessary $ The President Rebalancing is a big problem for us It is a big step back from free trade We gave on the safe box We will try but it will be very tough Chancellor Kohl I understand · Let's continue to talk there anything I can say to be helpful to you $ The President Well no one is really focused now around the time of the summit C e Chancellor Kohl using JZ' Is Perhaps What are the themes that the Democrats are The President They say it is a time for change and they also say they can fix the economy The only chance for the Democrats is f the economy turns down again The Democrats will say they can cure and turn around the economy 8' SEC SECRET 17 Chancellor Kohl role Are you saying that foreign policy will play no The President It will in the Fall And our role in the global economy will be important Also people are now· asking without the Soviet Union why do we have NATO And why do we need military strength But this will change in t e fall I feel confident But it is an ugly period But the economy will improve and dilute the Democrats' arguments Foreign policy will a·ssume its rightful importance Chancellor Kohl Who will his vice presidential nominee be The President I don't know Not a Southerner Cal_ifornia Maybe Cuomo even Tsongas U Chancellor Kohl ¢ He needs Would Cuomo accept the Vice Presidency fl' The President Maybe not But he is the governor of a big Northeast state and that would be good for them Chancellor Kohl There is one more impprtant point I want to make I will be coming to make a speech in New York in May at the American Newspaper Publishers' Association Who should I talk to discreetly Obviously I will discuss unification and all the Presidents who have helped Germany from Truman to Bush Then I can really set out what you did for us 1 P J - r e jdent _That w_auld_he_ sre_r_y_help£ul Sulzberger ¢ I would say talk to Chancellor Kohl I would like to talk quietly to someone on your staff and coordinate ideas t The President Talk to Brent U General Scowcroft Chancellor Kohl The President I can work with Peter on this U What should we say to the press ¢ Do I have a statement General Scowcroft discussed ¢ Yes you have an outline of what was - End of Conversation --