• ------• UNCLASSIFIED DEPARTMENT OF STATE M-emorand1Jm o I Conversatio DATE anuary 14 1976 SUBJECT Minutes of D r Kissinger's Telephone Conversations While at the White·House PARTICIPANTS Car 1 E Maw Under Secretary for Security Assistance Gordon Baldwin ·· C9unselor·on Intsrn tional Law Carl Maw asked whether records of telephone conversation compiled by Dr Kissinger• - secretaries covering the period _1969_ _and following · while Dr l i ssin_ger was in the White House could properly be ret n _d by Dr · Kissinger now_ D Kissinger's deposition in the Halperin case states that these record ar now- n the custody of Mr • Eagleburger A newspaper reporter · t ·believe William· Saf ire has asked Mr Maw by what authority these ·records could be properly removed from the White House Mr Maw -w nted a quick answer ___ _ 1 It is arguable that these records are the per- -· · _s nal-property of Dr Kissinger However the law · is -uncertain with regard-to the_property tights· of gov-ernment emplo yees It is clear however that D·r ·K_issinger does have two interests in these papers which can justify continu_ing cust0dy- in· the Department of state · a A governmental- interest in that·-· -these papers are· part of his · working papers necess·ary _ to be refe rred to--· in the cours·e o·f his employment and b · · some literary ·fnterest _in· ·the material in the nature of a private property claim Dr 1f1ing Olfire and Offerer FORM 2 • 65 DS-1254 UNCLASSIFIED ·--- • UNCLASSIFIED 2 •• 2 ·It is doubtful that the 1974 statute the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act applies That statut cov7rs t pe r 7 ord ngs which these are ndt and_ Pre idential i t rical materials of Richard Nixon The definition of historical materials is broad see 44 u s c · 2101r but i-t 'is most doubtf' 11 if any of these· memoranda constitute materials of Richard M Nixon • The memoranda are not of conversations with Mr Nixon The 1974 statute was hurriedly drafted in large measure to supersede an agreement between Mr Nixon and the Administrator of General Ser 7ices which pertained to papers then sought by Mr Nixon No one has claimed that these claims ever covered -records of Dr • Kissinger ' s telephone calls I •toid _Mr _ Maw therefore· · that I di_d not believe ·that the 1974 statute covers any of this material I said however that if the Administrator for General Services disag rees that we m_ay have some problem in retaining custody because-the statute · ·authorizes the GSA to issue implementing regulations · prov·ides for judicial·_r¢ vJ w as well·as a legisla tive veto· and therefore could limit rights to di_ po oJ hese memoran·aa · · 11 r -lso spoke- br_ief ly a bout· the Secretary• s refti 1···ift th Halperin case to fsclose material relating to conversations with third parties The _Justic Dep rtment urged two reasons for withholding Fi s_t t- tt the material was· re·levant and second that third-party-privacy rights would be infringed by disclosure I -sugges ed a third and I believe strong er grounds for withholding memoranda relating to third party conversations namely a · governmenta_l interest in assuring the confidentiality -· of advice proftere to seni6r 6fficials by colleagues and others ·Such a privilege could not be waived by the third ·party because it is not· a per onal ·· claim I told Mr Maw that I would write a memorandum on _ t J1 · s · s·tibj ect · · -· · · · · Mr Maw ai1d not ·c'c f ·• -· L - Mr • · ·Leigh T - Mr Maw · L GBBA' pwin cdj 1 1 4 76 2 2630 UNCLASSIFIED ·--