SECBET NODIS DEPARTMENT OF STATE Memorandum ol Conversation DATE 11 March 1978 SALT South African Nuclear Test Middle East· Yugoslavia China Environmental Modification' Part 2 of 2 SUBJECT PARTICIPANTS US --- ------The Secretary Deputy Secretary Marshall D Shulman USSR Amb Anatoliy Dobrynin DISTRIBUTION --------------- ---- --- ---------- ----- --- Following a discussion of the Horn of Africa Dobrynin raised several other topics 1 SALT Dobrynin aske if there had been any developm t in the U S position on SALT issues The Secretary said thesen s matters had been worked on and were still in the decision p e Dobrynin said that he had tried to be of help at a recent di_rocess · d h h nner given by the British Ambassa or w ic was attended by many prominent senators and congressmen mos of whom were opponents of the SALT treaty He expressed surprise that the opponents seemed to know so little about what had been going on at the Geneva talks and gave his impressio which_he said was shared by Senator McIntyre that if the Adminis ration vigorously campaigned for SALT there would be public and Congressional acceptance of the treaty a though h 7 greed that· the Administration should not expend its ammunition now 2 South African nuclear test site Dobrynin said that he would like to have a response to the Soviet communication of last week on this subject and the Secretary replied that this would be ready when oobrynin came in on March 16 3 Dobrynin said he ould also like a resp n e to the Soviet oral note on Israeli nuclear weapon capabilities The Secretary said he would have a reply ready but he added that S MS MDShulman ws X287Q4 Dr 1 Jing J 3 78 Offu and 'offerer SECRET NODIS FORM· 2 65 DS-1254 SECRET NOD IS -2- while_o r intelligence community agreed that Israel had the c pability to make nuclear weapons it was split on the quest' whether i t had already done so Dobrynin observed that h ion ad a J iigher opinion of the US intelligence people than th7 answer implied is 4 Middle East oobrynin asked what was expected of th egin visit The Secretary sketched briefly the issues of the interpretation of Resolution 242 and whether it applied to a l front the settlements and how to deal with the Palestinian question He said in response to a question that he did not know what position Begin would take on these issues _In response to a question Dobrynin s i he did not have any information about the curre Arafa visit to Moscow but hat he would bring in at the time of his next visit whatever information he could get Dobrynin asked if the Administration were willing to split up its proposal for arms to Israel Saudi •Arabia and Jordan and was given a negative reply Dobrynin quoted Senator Jackson as saying t at the on ress and the Israeli lobby in the u s were split on this issue and that he was not sure which way the congress would vote on it Dobrynin expressed the opinion that Beg n could get a ajority from his parliament for a more flexible policy since in his opinion i t was the best deal Israel could get now s Tito visit oobrynin as e how the visit had gone and was told it had been a good v7sit Dobrynin observed that Tito's views had more in common with those o the Soviet Union than with those of the u s He n ted tJ iat Tito had received royal treatment and said that Tito liked these things He said there was not now any tr uble betw en he Soviet Union and Yugoslavia and he made a poin f asking 7f Tito had raised any question about Yugo lavia s future in ependence as had been mentioned in the American press s prominently He was told that the question had_not been rais d and that Tito seemed self-confident nobrynin observed nobody knows what could happen afterward s 6 China oobrynin asked how the U S eva uated recent developments in China and express7d agreement with the view that Teng had come out 1ess we l than might hav7 been expected He added that Teng was not liked because of his excessive ambition SECRET NOD IS SECRET NOD IS -3In response to a question Dobrynin said he thought the treaty between China and Japan would be signed but that i t would be made clear that the anti-hegemony clause was not intended to refer to any particular country He expressed the personal view that he didn't see why the Soviet Union should be so edgy about the anti-hegemony clause any more than the U S should be 7 Environmental Modification Dobrynin transmitted an oral note in Russian with a unofficial English translation expressing the hope that the U S and the Soviet Union could ratify the Convention on Environmental Modification before the us Special Session on Dis rmament Copies attached SECRET NOD IS Unofficial translation _4 s is mown the Convention on the P ohibition of Military or A o J' Other Hostile Use of Environmental I bdif'ication Techniques to the preparation of' which the USSR and · the us have made a substantial contribution was opened for signature last May in Geneva By now more than 40 states have put their signatures under this important internation document whose purpose is to erect yet another barrier on the way of the arms race and to promote the preservation of the env tro oment In our opinion it is advisable no1 v to take measures to ensure the earliest possible entry of the Convention into force A necessary prerequisite for this would be the ratification of ·the Convention first of' all by the USSR and the us We believ it would be desirable to do this prior to the opening _of· the mi General Assembly· Special session on disarmament on May 2 3 The Soviet Union is in process of' the Convention ratification At present the Council of Ministers of the USSR is considering the question of approving the Convention and its submitting for ratification We expect that the US Govermnent will also take necessary measures to expedite the process o f ratif'ication and to complete it if possible prior to the opening of the Special session To expedite the entry of the Convention into force it wo ld be advisable in the opinion of the Soviet side that our two Governments call upon the countries signatories to the Convention to ormalize their participation in it prior to the opening of the Special session Besides we would consider it useful to prompt the UN Secretary-General in an appropriate form and on a suitable occasion to emphasize the importance of the Convention and of its earliest entry into force I l I - DECLASSIFIED- Audrority 0 Qi__ 11