E0 _0 • 16 21 XGOS•i 4 'TAGSI PINS CI -SUBJECT INTESTIGATION OF HORMAN ·cASEI INTERVIEWS _WITH RAFA L GONZALEZ REFI A STATE 11112271 B SANTIAGO ll616 CJ SANTi AGO 678 0 STATE 01732 1l 1 SUMMARYI A REVIEW OF THE TRANSCRIPTS· OF EMBOFr 8 1 JANUARY 24 ANO i INTERVIEWS OF GONZALEZ INDICAJES THAT WHILE THE LATTER REPLIED TO Al PQUESTIONS HE DID NOT AOEQ• A e 1 · ANSWER THE IMPORTANT ONES THE BASIC ISSUE IS WHETHER GONZALEZ HAS IN HIS POSSESSION ANY FACTS NOT iHITHERTO KNOWN AE0UT 'THE DEATH OF CHARI ES HORMAN OR THE POS IB E INVOlVEMENT OF JS INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES CIVILIAN OR MILITARYi THEREIN IN OU JN'f M yie ws HE PRODUCED NO SUCH FACTS ANO No NEW ALLEGATIONS ON 'T ESE TWO ISSUES • FURTHERMORE REGAROLESS OF GONZALEZ 1 PSYCHOLOGICAi STATE SOME JUDGMENT MUST BE MADE ON HIS ELIABil ITY ON THE BASIS OF HIS REFUSAL TO ANS ER QUESTIONS ON THE KEY ISSUES HIS EFFORTS TO TRADE HIS ALLEGED KNOWl EOGE ABOUT HORMAN FOR AN ALL•OUT 0s EFFORT 'TO GET HIM OUT OF 'CHILE THE GLARING coNFl ICTS BETWEEN WHAT HE HAS TOl O US ON VARIOUS OCCASIONS ANO WHAT HE HAS · · ' rj t • t ' • - · ffe'7 - - - t- 1 _ --··· ··-- - - PAGE 02 • TOLD US NEWSPERSONS NANO HIS HANOERI_Nr A ND SOMETIMES GROTESQUE STATEMENTS HE· CONCLUDE THAT GONZALEZ IS NOT RELIABLE EVEN If' THE GOC WERE PREPAREOTO ALLOW GONZALEZ TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY -- ANO rr· _rs NOT -- ON THE BASIS OF THE lNFOMATION AVAILABLE HERE OUR JUDGMENT IS THAT GONZALEZ wouLo NOT BE ABLE TO SATISFl'THE UNDERSTANDABLE DESIRES ·OF THE HORMANS ANO THEIR CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORTERS TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT CHARLES NORMAN'S DEATH NOR WOULD HE SHED FACTUAL LIGHT ON POSSIBLE US INTELLIGENCE INVOLVEMENT IN THE AFFAIR · ON THE CONTRARY GONZALEZ• WELL•DEVELOPED tA ACITY TO SPIN OUT SELF•SERVING YARNS C ULD DO A GREAT'DEAL OF HARM IN BOTH AREAS HE RECOMMENO THAT THE·· SG tONTINUE TO PRESS THE GOC F'OR''l ONZALEZ' RELEASE BUT THAT WE AVOID LI KE THE PLAGUE GONZALEZ I SUGGESTIONS THAT· THE USG MOUNT SOME- KIND OF- COVERT OP ERATION · ro GE'T HlM ASYLUM IN THE US AMS ASSA DOR I S RES I DENCE - OR f H 1 HE- B E COME THE INTERHEOIARI' - l _ETWEEN GONZALEZ AND f O fIGN• M NI SJER CARVAJAL -OR- -GENERA1 ' LEIGH ENO SUH1'1AR T - · - 1_ _ ·• _ -- - • _ r_ _ - - - 1 f -_ •- 1'· -· · _ · 2 • THE EMBASSY HAS POUCHE0 SANTIAGOS jg OF- i4NUARY 2A _· _ ANO SANTI IIGO A•2 OF F fBRUARr J5 SP ANISH•J ANGUAGE - TfiAN$• ·cR I PTS TAP ES -AND_ NC LLAR'I' 'i00CUHENT 5l ON 'THE ' J-ANUARY - · _' ' -·241 AND 31 INTERVl£WS wl l _RAF AEL GDNZ i Elt ' wE HERE-i ' - - · PRESENT- OUIFlMPRESSlO Sfi IF GON_ZALE% tr THOUG 'I'$ ON -- 'HE·· - '•- · s AL I ENT PO I NT s oft THE_·¼'Ilfi' Efi VlE Hs •• -•Lll' OJJ Gl1 ·· WE oo · NO't i AVE_ THE COHPLET --RECDRD AN HEREF ORE '-L t -SOME' P ERSPECTlYE --· - · AFTER · WE STOPPED _' THE ·t P ES _·GONZ Al 'l AIS f I '6 _ ' - - _ _- _- - _ WHICH' ''THE OE ART A L D RE · - hJ • ft- l ' - · • _ --- - si r _ - · ·•• - • - • - u ·-··- --i••· t - · _ f t 'II--- - -- I · - ' - - w _-i- - - _ __ -· - - _- _ · 3 THE ITALIANS I EFT iJS AL ONE N THf - sEc_OND SESSlON - - • c • EHBOFF• FIRS ' ' NOTEo TOiiGONZALEZ THf At1END IENT REQUESTED• - '' B't THE DEPARTHENT REF O IN THE ORIGIN t L1 iJNDERSl NOING • ' OM CONDITIONS OF 'fHE INTERVIEWS CREf'' B 'GONZiLEZ AGREED 1-Q- CONTINUE 'THE RECORDING_ IN lHE KNOWLEDGE _ THA ri TRANS••· - t i PTS ANO OR TAPES MJ GHT •HAV f TO BE 'RELEASED 10' THE--·•c ' - · 7 - - - -- · • · · ·- · - - • - __ f i - - _ _ ¥ · _ _•PAGE 03 SANTI A 01430 01 OF 03 1916442 - f c t' ESS HE ASKED HOWEVER THAT IN SUCH EVENT THE CD FIDENTIALITY OF THE lNFORMATION BE MAINTAINED ANO - THAT CON RESS BE INFORMED OF THE DANGER PUBLICATION WOULD CAUSE HIM •4 GONZALEZ ADDRESSES THE QUESTIONS OF HORMAN' S _DEATH AND CIA ACTIVITIES•• SORT OF ' - EMBOFFS AT ·THE SECOND MEETING FINISHED QUESTIONS R THROUGH V REF A ANO THEN FOUND GONZALEZ W Ll - NG T J O THROUGH QUESTIONS A THROUGH F HIS ANSWERS IN GENERAL APPEARED CONSISTENT WITH HAT HE TOLD CONIUL BROWNELL IN THEIR JUNE B 975 MEETING 76 SANTIAGO 5 63 AND HE GAVE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL HE HINTED WIDELY BUT REFUSED TO GO INTO WHAT HE SAID HE KNEW ABOUT THE CIRCUM• STANCES OF HORMAN•s DEATH OR THE POSSIBLE INVOLVEMENT OF US INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES ON THIS POINT HIS STATEME T WAS INCONSISTENT WITH HIS DENIAL TO BROWNELL THAT HE KNEW ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT HORMAN HrJs tJRSiEtEn Urf f JhJ ff u 7 - cK fNEL111 t1 _· ' • __ t E f ONl '1' ·FOR ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY LUERS · l i· - 1'E-- # - e- J 'jliONZALEZ 1 MOST IMPORTANT ASSl RTION WAS THAT HE BECAME J -· rr·· 'IN TERESTED IN THE HOMRAN CASE AFTER HAVING EXHUMED THE BODY ''' - t•i '- W'ITH JAMES ANDERSON IN MARCH 197 TRANSCRIPT I PP 16 ANO 25 c - · 'H 'THEN UNDERTOOK A PERSONAL· INVESTIGATION TO SATISFY HIS CURIOS iY ' -' i' AND CONSCIENCE HE NOW KNOWS ••· HE SIAO •• HOW HORMAN OIEO - BUf' HE WOULD ONLY SPECULATE A LITTLE ON THE SUBJECT CTR ANSCR Ii T I F '20•24 HE Al SO DUCKED 'THE QUESTIONS CK NANO Ol ON A POSSIBLE US INTELLIGENCE CONNECTION WITH THE HOMRAN CASE AND DENIED-THE QUOTES 4FFARENTLY ATi SUiEO TO HIM IN THOSE QUESTIONS RESPECTIVELY I P '17 I PP 17'•191 ANO I PP 24•25 WE ASSUME THE QUOTES WERE TAKEN FROM A TAPE OF HIS JUNE 19'16 TALK WITH AME CAN JO RNALISTS GONZALEZ ALSO REFUSED TO ANSWER A QUESTION ON HIS KNOW EOGE•OF JAMES ANDERSON BErORE THE EXHUMATION OF HORMAN ·ex ·PP •Bl AND HE SAID THAT HE COULD TALK ABOUT HORMAN ONCE our· UNDER SECURE CONDITIONS CI P 351 II P 27 OF CHILE 0 6 GONZALEZ' REL I ABILITY THE MATTER OF GONZALEZ 1 ·PSYCHOLOGICA' STATE IS- NOT THE ISSUE HIS _·RELIABILITY IS WE HAVE ABOUT THE SAME IMPR SSION Of GONZALEZ AS BEFORE HE IS INTELLIGENT NELL INFORMED AND WELL BALANCED ON SOME MATTERSw HIS -SENSE OF SELF· INTEREST IS VERY STRnNG AND WE BELIEVE HE wbu1 o SAY ABOUT ANYTHING ZHAT HE THOUGHT WOULD HELP GET HIM OUT OF CHILi THUS '·HE ·TOLD US IN THESE CONVERSATIONS T AT HE HAO TALKED ABOUT HOR AN _ ·•·· _ _ 0 -•e '•• • • ·-·' - · ' · '-- · - __ - · _ - ·- __ ---· __ Depart1nent tJJ State fELEGRAM - PAGE 02 SANTIA 01430 02· OF 03 191545Z WITH AMERICAN JOURNALISTS IN JUNE 1975 IN ORDER 10 CATCH OUTSioE· ATTENTION FOR HIS FAMILY'S CASE CI P 3 NOW THAT HE REALIZES HIS STATEMENTS AT THAT TIME WORKED AGAINST HIS INTEREST IN LEAVING CHILE HE REFUSES·To SAY ANYTHING HORE•• BUT HE DANGLES BEFORE THE USG THE POSSIBILITY OF GIVING DETAILS OF WHAT HE KNOWS ABOUT HORMAN ONCE CHILE IS BEHIND HIM E ARE STRUCK By GONZALEZl FIXATIONS AT THE SLIGHTEST PRETEXT HE GOES OFF INTO A ONOLOGUE HAVING LITTLE RELATION TO THE s BJErT AT HAND • THUS ON QUESTION 1 ABOUT THE CIA 1 S HYPNOSIS of l WIFE HE REFUSED TO GO INTO DETAIL AND WENT ON AT L ENGTrt IN' r OTHER·MATTERS CI P 29•351 II P 2 • HE WENT INTO A Sl ilLi MONOLOGUE ON THE CHILEAN AIR FORCE'S PERSECUATION OF HIM en P 10 17 INTERSPERSED WITH ATTENTION•GETTING COMMENTS ABOUT G1C SURVEILLANCE OF THE EMBASSY ANO GENERAL LEIGH'S BELIEF THAT AMBASSADO 70 R POPPER ANO SECRETARY KISSINGER ARE COMMUNISTS • • 8 lN SHORT BASED ON JHE INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO U WE WERIOUSLY DOUBT GONZALEZ' RELIABILITY ANO WE QUESTION WHETHER HE KNOWS ANYTHING OF VALUE ABOUT HORMANIS DEATH ANO ANY Us INTELLIGENCE CONNECTION TO IT • • P IN ·PRESENT SITUATION ORDER TO ·FOCUS US GONZALEZ REMAINS-IN A CATCH•22 SITUATICINl ATTENTION ON 'HIS AND HIS 'FAMILY 1 S FATE HE 3ALKED TO US JOURNALIESTS ABOUT HOkMAN BY DOING SO HE REENFORCEO THE GOC IS DETERMINATION NOT 'iO LET HIM' LEAVE CHILE THE CHt EANS HAVE GODO REASON TO FEAR WHAT HE wouL o SAY 1'BROIID io E BELEIVE' HIM 'CAPABLE ·OF SAYING MUCH ABOUT SUBJECTS iTHAT_' WOULD DEEPLY EMBARRASS THE GOC IN WHAT WOULD PROABLY BE ·A COMBINATICN o ·THiNGS HE KNEW HAO HEARD OF ND HAO MADE UP ' lN'THE '·MEANTIME HE IS NOT WILLING ·To SAY MORE ABOUT HORMAN OR THE CI BECAUSE ·HE SAYS IT MIGHT PREJUDICE EVEN MORE· HIS CHANCES OF GETT ING OUT OF CHILE AND BECAUSE OF· LOYAL'TY TO HIS OLD INTELLIGENCE COLLEAGUES CI PP 2 3 • i • ' -· - _ - - - · ••• • Urtlit J0tf EU ·_f f·· • ' t T '· ·e- _-t •c L°d' ' · r - ·•'ft jrAG ' f t- f SANTI A 131430 ·-' · e 2· OF B3 1gt -45Z - 4f t - LEZ IS PERFECTLY AW i 6F THE DILEMMA HE PUT HIS ' EMPHASIS ON US ACTION I WHEN WE W NT OFF T H TAPE AFTER THE • • SECONO SESSION GONZALEZ-' SAID' ' HAt PRESIDENf £CARTER COULD GET 'S - - HIH OuT·•DI' ·cHILE IF HE -WANTED J THE PINOCHE' 1'7 GOVERNHENT WOULD J·cf·'o ' cNOT SA y No TO THE NEW US iPRES IDENT GDNZALEt ' tHEN ' OFFEREO THREE ' f IDEAS 'FOR us CONSIDERATION· F IRST ' HE·-ASKEO· WHA r WOULD ·sE THE • ' • ' - usG• s 'REACTION SHOULD HE ANO HIS- F AHii v TURN 'UP TO REQUEST •· ASYLUM CAT•THE AMBASSAOOR 1 S RESIDENCE • HE NOTED THAT IF SUCH A REQUEST' WERE ACCEPTED TH us WOULO HAVE MUCH MORE EASON 'tD·PRESSURE THE Goe FOR HIS RELEASE y• • --·-·- ·-· - I · - •---t - 4· · -5_ _ - - •• • RO E ·CHANNEL - - 'EYES-ONLY FOR ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY LUERS ·· 11 SECOND GONZALEZ GAVE US COPIES Op TWO PSYCHIATRISTS 1 · REPORTS ON HIM Of JULY 1 7e CERTIFYING AS ·ro Hts MENTAL HEALTh ·cPO UCHED ·FEBRUARY 15 • HE ASKED THAT WE PRESENT THEM TO FOREIGN MINISTER CARVAJAL SINCE THEY COUNTERED THE GOC I 5 ASSERTION TH T H ISiINSANE AND FINALLY GONZALEZ SAID 'THAT HE KNEW 'FROM D 2 · · · · · ·· · · ·· ·· · · · · 'CONTACTS WITH FRIENDS AND FROM WHAT TH ITALIANS HAO TOLD HIM 'TH T 'THE ARMY NAVY AND CARABINERO INTELLIGENCE SE VICES PLUS •DINA' HAY E NOTHING AGAINST HIS DEPARTURE ON LY THE AIR FORCE OP POSES tT ANQ THAT MEANS AIR FORCE CINC GENERAL LEIGH HE ASKED IF WE COULD CONFIRM THIS SO THAT· HE MIGHT BE ABLE Tei GET -ro LEIGH AND TALK HIM INTO REASON ' 7 12 ITALIAN GOVERNMENT ACTION AND THE AMERICAN PRESS 'THE 'ITALIAN CHARGE DE· VERGOTTINI TOLD 'EHBOFF FEBRUARY 2 THAT il-i GOI HAO INTENDED TO RAISE THE GONZALEZ PROBLEM WITH VICE PRESIDENT HO NDALE ·DURING THE LATTEF IS VISIT TO ROHE WHEN THE GOl HOWEV ' R H ARD OF EMBASSY'S JANUARY 20 APPROACH TO THE ITALIANS ON 'INTERVIEWiNG GONZALEZ REF BJ IT OECIDED TO HAIT IN THE HQ E THAT 'THE RENEWED US INTEREST IN GONZALEZ INDICATED THE NEW US ADMINISTRATION HAD DECIDED TO MAKE ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO GET · HIM OUT OF CHILE EMBOFF EXPLAINED BACKGROUND OF THE INTERVIEWS OE 0 VERGOTTINI' SAID HE WOULD PROBABLY SUGGEST TO ROM_E THAT THC 0 __ · ' '· -· ' f - • • • t Departnient q S'tafij · g _-4 - rr s of ' PAGE 02 SANTIA 01430 03 OF 03 39f706Z GOI WAIT A FEW WEEKS'AND THEN RAISE 'THE QUESTION AGAIN IN THt ·-DEPARTMENT-u -✓ 13 EMBOFF WAS APPROACHED FEBRUARY 7•8 SY ONE OF THE AMERICAN JOURNALISTS WHO HAD INTERVIE ED GONZALEZ IN jUNE 1976 AND BY DE VERGOiTINI • THE FORMER WANTED TD INTERVIEW GONZALEZ AGAIN ·AND THE LATTER WAS INTERESTED IN 'THE POSSIBILITY• BOTH ASKED OUR OPINION EMBOFF NOTED TO BOTH THE ADVANTAGES ANO 'OISADVANTEAGES f'OR GONZALEZ OF FURTHER PUBLICITY BUT O O 'NOT 'EXPRESS AN OPINION· AS TO WHERE THE BALANCE LAV AS IT TURNED OUT 'THE J OURNAL Si HAS NOT FOLLOWED UP WITH THE ITALIANS 14 US INTERSTS ANO ACTIONS THE US HAS TWO OBJiCT VES WITH REGARD TD GONZALEZ To FINO OUT WHAT HE SAY-5 HE KNOWS ABOUT H01- MA s DEATH AND ANY US INTELLIGENCE CONNECTION ANO TO GET H S US · CITIZEN SON OUT Of CHILE SINCE THE ·MOTHER ANO C tiILD WILL NOT-LEAVE WITHOUT GONZAL EZi THAT MEANS GETTING ALL OUJ • THESE A MS CONFLICT AS GONZALEZ KNOWS SO WELL AS FML AS WE 'C AN SEE OUR RECENT INTENSIVE CONVERSATIONS 'HAVE ONLY GI VEN US FURTHER REASON FDR SKEFTICUSM THAT HE 'HAS MUCH USEFUL TO TELL US WE ARE READY TD ACCEPT WHAT GONZALEZ DEFINES AS HIS SPECULATIONTHAT SOMEONE IN AUTHORITY ORDERED rjORMAN S ·DEATH BUT WE DOUBT 'T HAT WE COULD GET FROM HIM THE KIND Of R ELIABLE TESTIMDNY T-HAT WOULD SATISFY THOSE INTERESTED IN RESOLVING THE MANY DOUBTS ONHORMANiS_OEATH 'i''' ' ' ·_ ' ' ' 15 THE EMBASSY BELIEVES THAT '_'THE ·PRINCIPAL us CONCERN rs· THE WELFARE -OF THE INNOCENT OUAL•ClTlZEN• SON AND THAT THE USG SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON GETTING 'H E•'f A'MILY OUT OF CHILE WE DD NOT KNOW WHETHER THE USG COULD CONVINCE THE GDC TO ALLDf GCNZALEzr DEPARTURE THE GOC ·MIGHT PAY '·MORE ATTENTION TO THE NEW ADMINISTRATION THAT IT DIOTO tHE LAST ONE ON THIS ISSUE AND THE DEPARTMENT WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER THE EXERCISE OF MUSCLE THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE NECEssiRY'TO EXTRACT GONZtLEZ WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH BROADER us INTERESTS WE CAN 'THINK OF NO WAY TO GUARANTEE TO THE GOC T AT GONZALEZ' WOUWD NOT -c i -• •7 t t if '· ' ' ·· · - fELEGflAM SANTIA 01430 ·03 Of 03 'PAGE 0 5 91'7062 TALK HIS HEAD OFF ONCE OUTSIDE CHILE WHICH ·PROBABLY MEANS NO DEAL· BUT WE SHOULD TRY -115 THE EMBASSY BELIEVES STRONGLY THAT WE -SHOULD NOT BECOME INVOLVc'D IN THE KIND OF SCHEMES PUT TO us BY GONZALEZ AiIDE FROM f f QUESTION ·OF US GDOO ·_FAITH THAT WOULD BE RAISED AND THE IMPLICATIONS FOR GENERAL us POLICY ON ASYLUM IT WOULD Be roe RISKY FOR GONZALEZ TO ATTEMPT A MOVE FROM THE ITALIAN CHANCERY TO 'THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR'S RESIDENCE AND w ·sHOULO NOT 'OURSELVES UNDERTAKE SUCH AN ACTION EITHER CLANDESIINEI Y OR OT iERa WISE WE O NOT BELIEVE THE PSYCHIATRIC REPORTS WOULD AF ECT TH GOC PDSITON AND WE SEE NO REASON TO CARRY GONZALEZ' MAIL TO ADMIRAL CARVAJAL OR GENERAL LEIGH 0 0 1 UNlESS OTHERWISE INSTRUCTED THE EMBASSY WILL TAKE THIS LINE WITH GONZALEZ • WE OWE HIM ANSWERS ON fHESE POINTS POPPER ' ' · · - - 4 - - -