'MEMORANDl'M TIlE WHITE HOUSE REg NODIS XGDS MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSA TION PAR TICIPANTS Dr Henry A Kissinger Secretary of State ar d Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Dr James R Schlesinger Secretary of Defense William Colby Director Central Intelligence Agency Philip Areeda Deputy Counsel to the President Mr Laurence Silberman Deputy Attorney General Martin R Hoffman General Counsel Department of Defense Lt General Brent Scowcroft Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs DATE AND TIME Thursday February 20 1975 10 36 -11 33 a m PLACE Secretary Kissi lger' s Office The White House SUBJECT Investigation of Allegations of CIA Domestic Activities Secretary Kissinger Shouldn't we discuss what we are trying to achieve in these investigations and what we are trying to prevent The fact of these investigations could be as damaging to the intelligence community as McCarthy was to the Foreign Service The nature of covert operations v 111 have a curious aspect to the average mind and out of perspective it could look inexplicable • The result could be the drying up of the imaginations of the people on which we depend If people think they will be indicted ten years later for what they do That is my overwhelming concern NSA I don't know what the abuses are 1 ·• c y Q Le if e-r 2 411 15 l tUUIMIJ J M u-­ DECLASSIFIED §€ R E'I -NODIS XGDS AUTHORITY BY a ti NLF DATE ¢k a7 File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R Ford Presidential Library SfS@lRE' ' NODIS XGDS Secretary Schlesinger Secretary Kissinger 2 Legally NSA is spotless If they are only looking at illegal activities Mr Silberman chew on There aren't enough illegal activities for them to Director Colby The issue will be do we do these things Mr Areeda Church says he's going to look into the legal moral and political cost-effectiveness aspects of it Secretary Kissinger Then we are in trouble The committees and staff don't inspire confidence Harrington and Miller are professional leakers Miller is also violently anti-Vietnam and he believes the way to get the government is to leak it to death Director Colby My idea to control this is to get secrecy agreements That keeps them from publishing Secretary Kissinger Sy Hersh In their own names You can't keep them from Director Colby Our testimony will have numbers in place of names We will divide them into three categories in increasing order of sensitivity Secretary Kissinger Who gets the lists Director Colby The chairmen It is under their control If he insists on a name in category 3 we then move carefully - - we either tell him refuse on my own initiative or buck it to the White House Secretary Kissinger You can initially take a position on professional judgment but then we must go to the President Bill should invoke himself first so as not to invoke the President initially in each case We must say this involves the profoundest national security Of course we want to cooperate but these are basic issues of national survival Mr Areeda Should the President meet with Tower and Church to make these points -BECR i T NODIS XGDS 3 'SE-@RE'f' NODIS XGDS Secretary Kissinger In all the world the things which hurt us the most are the CIA business and Turkey aid The British can't under­ stand us Callaghan says insiders there are routinely tapped Our statements ought to indicate the gravity with which we view the situation Why can't Bill testify Director Colby Names countries of operations Secretary Kissinger You can't even do it by country X wants to prove you shouldn't do it at all Director Colby I would do it in an executive session then we have a good case And Church If it leaks Mr Silberman I agree Our position on executive privilege would be better if we had a leak fir st Secretary Kissinger to go to Hersh What if Miller waited until after the investigation Mr Silberman It won't hold that long We first give them less sensitive information so if it leaks we aren't hurt so much Secretary Kissinger Suppose you say on covert operations that we support the moderate political parties On a global basis that is okay but how does that serve Church's purpose He will then just prove not only is it imm oral but useless We have to demonstrate to foreign countries we aren't too dangerous to cooperate with because of leaks Mr Areeda Is there any mileage in having the leaders of the select comm ittee have a meeting with the President Mr Silberman It's premature They could only discuss generalities because we couldn't know the line yet We should keep the President out of it until we get a crunch Secretary Kissinger tiiBCR ET NODIS XGDS I agree 4 iiSCRD' 'iNODIS XGDS Mr Silberman The FBI may be the sexiest part of this Hoover did things which won't stand scrutiny especially under Johnson We will put these out in generic terms as quickly as possible The Bureau would like to dribble it out This will divert attention and show relative cooperation with the co m mittee This relates only to illegal activities Kissinger relates story about Hoover and the female spy Secretary Kissinger out of We have to be clear on what we want them to stay Director Colby I will refuse to give them the files on people - - on privacy grounds Mr Areeda That is a good case for a confrontation Mr Hoffman security But don't we have to preserve their ability to keep Secretary Kissinger Harrington is a leaker -- any House member has access to the material we turn over We can't fight on details -- only categories We have to know the rules about the NSA covert operations and any other areas Mr Areeda There is a constitutional problem on covert operations We can't take the posture that we can engage in operations that were kept from the co m mittees which Congress has designated as responsible for over sight Secretary Kissinger go to court • • • Mr Si lberman First we must define the issues Then we could I doubt it would go to court -- it would take two years Secretary Kissinger mining the country Then we could go to the public that they are under­ Director Colby But we are doing so little in covert activities it is not too damaging Secretary Kissinger Then disclosing them will show us to the world _ as a cream puff 8ilf§R i NODIS XGDS SiIiJ 8ft 131 ' INO DIS XGDS 5 There are dozens of places where we are letting the situation go by default Let's establish categories of especially sensitive activities Then whoever testifies will follow these guidelines Director Colby The dangerous thing on NSA is whether they can pick up conversations between Americans Secretary Kissinger My worry is not that they will find illegalities in NSA but that in the process of finding out about illegalities they will unravel NSA activities In the process of giving us a clean bill of health he could destroy us Do we have a case on executive privilege Mr Silberman In the case of U S v Nixon there is something there but you can't analyze it on a strictly legal basis • Secretary Kissinger I think this group should establish categories of what we say methods for protecting what we need to keep Then we can set down with the President to understand what the issue is Then we would avoid the danger that to get through each week we would jeopardize the next week's hearings -S i Cjg liZEF NODIS XGDS ----- -- --- - 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