eclas sified Ca se NW# 78134 Date 8-22-202 5 4049 OBCRD'i' THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT R stricted Meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin U PARTICIPANTS The President Coridoleezza Rice Assist nt to the· Ptesident for National Security Affairs Notetaker Peter Afanasenko Interpreter President Vladimir Putin Vladimir Rushaylo Secretary of Security Council Notet ker Interpreter DATE TIME june 16 2001 2 50 - 4 10 Brdo Castle Slovenia AND PLACE President utin p m How has your trip been U The President Good People thought I was an isolationist · that I didn't care about Europe · They were ne rvous Perhaps my coming from Texas bothered the Now it's better with the press President Putin · that The President · You've damped them down I You have a flair for won't say so publicly but this is the most important meeting of the trip Everybody is watching The Europeans with whom I met told me that respect was important read your book I know you keep a c·r oss President Putin Describes the cioss the fire in the Dacha U The President We should be frank and· straightforward President Putin Yes This meet i ng is fo r personal contact There ar some issues we will be working on for a long time Si GIU C Classi f ied by Stephen E Biegun Reason 1 5 d NW# 7af c assifng Id 1 raWs207 I ------ --- ----- --- -- - - -- --- 2 _ like strategic stability But why s the ABM Treaty restrictive for you What does it prevent you fiom doing Let our · specialists get together to consider why it hampers you The President I invite you to Washington perhaps to the · Ranch Our reiations are much bigger than strategic stability I don't want to dim i nish Russia A ·strong Russia is in our interest The ABM Treaty codified our relationship as enemies A reliance on blowing each other up is not stability The ABM Treaty codifies hostility not stability We must redefine new threats corning from those that hate America and may hate you This is not Star Wars It says no r ogue state· can blackmail America or Russia You have spoken of interception on launch But the ABM Treaty prevents that Think about it President Putin I'm pleas d to accept broader framework of relations There must be hones t y in our relations ·I'm popular in Russia and I'll tell you why because I'm in touch People in Russia feel ·deceived by large-scale changes that brought more freedom that they can't enjoy Not· ust the oor but the elite also fee l _s frustrated What really happened Soviet ood will changed the world voluntarily And Russians gave up_thousands of square kilometers of territory voluntarily Unheard of Ukraine part of Russia for centuries given away Kazakhstan given away The Caucasus · too Hard to imagine and done by party ·b osses · · · · · Then there was· Chechnya· Russia left in 1996 and then · what happened Radicals came in from A_rab countries and attacked neighboring· provinces 'St At the G- 8 in Tokyo and at the next and the next Ru·s sia' s debt was to be resolved This was never done Not like the case of Poland or Egypt I know of concerns about Rus ia's relations with rogue states Do you think I like them The President I don't know I know you deal with them Pre ident Putin I we n to N6rth Korea because the United States was using North Korea's missile program as an excuse to abrogate the ABM Treaty So I went BIJCRE'¥ NW# 78134 Docid 3468520·7 · - - -- 3 When the Soviet Union fell apart dangers appeared on Russia's southern botder _We face Islamic radicalism I needed leverage and could get t no other way the old leverage wa gone My new friends deserted me There· was no debt reduction · When I met Kissinger in St Petersburg he asked - about my background He said that all decent peopie got their start in intellig nce S l The President Leaders inherit problems I've go·t mine I've heard your balance sheet Your company is in trouble I hope you move in the direction of democracy and free markets 1'S l Chechnya is a problem The use of massive force compromise of minority rights is a terrible fhihg This sends a very different signal from the one· you are sending on the economy This is not the way to handle that issue I'm concerned by Iran Weapons reaching that country could harm you too · I can't do much with them now We' re not trying to disadva·ntage you We need cooperation on a lot of issues including Caspian Basin energy resources_ ·I've got· ·pro biems too It see s that if you are orried about problems on your southern border you ought to welcome NATO · enlargement which could stabi1i-z e the region immediately to your West in· the face of fundamentalism Kim Dae Jung of South Korea visited me this spring I told him that I _don't trust Kim Jong Ill an I don't _but there are things that can _be done on the Korean Peninsula and Russia and the United-States should cooperate on it Russia belongs to the West it is not an enemy in 50- years ·china· could become ·a big problem Rus_s·ia' s intere ts lie with the West And you ·should be like the West rule of law entrepreneurship freedom of the press · You have made some good choices like the fiat tax law and hope yo u keep it up President Putin Regarding rogue states we have a complex history with Iran History is important I understand you studied history and so you know how important it is t S- The President We must learn to move past it writing history · NW# 78134 Docid 3468 207 We're th ones 4 Pr sident Putin I will restri6t missile technology to Iran There are those who want to make mo ey w·i th this country in these areas Also I heard you were moving to normalize -relations with Iran The President impossible now That's not true Congress makes that completely rs President Putin · But Bud McFarland is in contact with the head of the Iianian Parliament on behalf of the Unit d States Government The President Dr Ri ce That's not true Rumors exist but they are not true 'K l President Putin OK But Germany has opened up a credit line of 28 DM for Iran People aie opening_ it up · Besides ·tra e in conventiona·1 weapons is a normal commercial activity · Iranian experts do pose many questions about sensitive matters to our experts Ther e i ·s no doubt ·they want a nuclear weapon I've told our people ' not to tel them such things And by the way we will try to work jointl wi'th you on Iraq Let me raise Cuba and tell you why I went there they had sent us a lousy nuclear power plant for which we had paid $30 million It was no good at a11 ' That's why I went to Cuba to ·collect · I am concerned about Pakistan It is just·a junta with nuclear It is no democracy yet the West makes no criticism of weapons it Should talk _about it · The Pres ident ·Glad to You see States-Russia clash - the threat is not a United President Putin I know I · never considered you a threat Even during the Cold War I agree and'I wrote down what you said about China and 50 years We are watching carefully C'8 l The President The Cold War was a time competition and diminishing each other President Putin suspicion i81 You did the diminishing part very well NW# 78134 of DocTd 34685207 s The President You have a good reputation in Europe but why did you make the decision about the free press President Putin Let me finish with· Pakistan and Afghanistan first Afghanistan is at war It rocks our boat Usama Bin Laden is sitting there We started to cooperate but th e n the · leak about the Afghan Working group broke last year I thought it was· the work of forces opposed to this sort or any sort of Russian-American cooperation I lost agents becaus of that problem The President Armitage can -do this He's a good man - President Putin What should we do with the Taliban - I asked Clinton _who never gave back a straight answer ts The President cooperation Armitage and George Tenet have my full President Putin be fewer_ games f I Perhaps now after your elections there will rs_ _ The President Rumsfeld and Ivanov have had great talks and hey are the - ppropriate· channel for figurin out the strategic framework That's the place to determine what's possible President Putin That s ·agreed· _ Now let me· return to NATO enl argement · You know our position You have made an important statement when you· said that Russia ii no enemy What you said about 50 years· in the future is important Russia is • European and mult i-ethnic like the United States I can imagine us becoming allies Onli dire need cotild make us llied with others But we feel left · out o·f NATO If Russia is not part · of this of course it feels left out Why - is NATO enlargement needed In 1954 the Soviet Union applied to join NATO I have the document The President That's interesting K J President Putin NATO gave a negative answer with four specific reasons the lack of an Austrian settlement the lack of a German settlement the totalitarian grip on Eastern Europe and need for Russia to cooperate with the UN Disarmament process Now a _l l these conditions have been met Perhaps Russia could be an Ally NW# 78134 Doc Id 34685207 'SELRrl'f- · 6 But the real question is how we associate Russia with the rest of the civilized world The fact is that NATO is enlarging and we have nothing to say ab out it The President Are you going to talk about the press now K President Putin OK I remember meeting years ago with a Nobel Prize winner who recommended giving away state property fast because it would find its way into the -right hands We gave away proper t y but there was such weakness at the center Well the weakne·ss spread out and the state grew very weak Privatization was especially weak Some persons grew very powerful To preserve their legally ·obtained holding s they bought up medi assets Gusinsky took $1 billion Of government holdings H stole $1 5 billion of state propeity and then compla _ins that the state steals l 'SJ You talk about · a free pr ss A free press needs an economic foundation ·of its o wn r want to set the conditions for a real · free press to aris It is not Mfreedom of the ptess• heri somebody takes $1 5 billion and pressures the state _ The Pr esident We should return to the meeting You kriow that Aznar likes you a lot he spoke to me of his r e sp ct ·f o r you - Preside nt Putin You invited me to Washington and your ranch I'd 1 ike to invite you to com to Mosco - and my home Now o n the economy I appreciate your support on the WTO But we have some problems with the Europeans and your leadership could ma ke a difference They till claimed in a recent steel case that •we were a non-market ·e conomy and the evidenc e they used included that fact that the price of land is lower in Novosibirsk than in Belgium It is also troubling that Jackson- · Variik still applies The Chinese already have permane nt· MFN Are they more democratic than e are And they even claim to be a eveloping country 'E J The ·President away WTO membership will mean that Jackson vanik goes President Put in I had heard you were going t o send a business dele gation to Russia U · · The President I' 11 get Don Evans to organize this · We have a lot of potential You won't be s e lling only oil forever · U End of Convers ation Docid 34685207