tf ' · JOHN O p _ ·rc c n- 1 J JCUM D 1 n u it Ll GA Cl 1N1 0N P NL i li ON N MCX ALm r« GOHC 11 m t Hl NR' ' M J ' Cl SON W SHa U t I t11cr C NLCC 1 i R 10 l'i 1 ' t CHC I D Afl i N lj WA LACE Ui ' NN l TT trril H Cf Hi I CURTIS NEJ3R C ·i 7 tiOLlr-'i L ' J CM I ' VICJZ c r Ml N t t VlN Pl iCC' 11 ' NC N • - 1 - r 1 i_ cc o i •l MAZ Mou1 1J 1 • N M1 dN You -- c x n c'i · · iG 1-16 MLU CAL I ' 'l 'lh UAM i- i A· · s r JO -iS a 1 r- i _ C N IL WIL WANi'M• MCC1JLl W i C JCl-3N T CON 'AV CXla CU'rlVE D1R CT0it Vt AS ·•Hr GTON C e - 2 0510 March 28 · 196 _·_ -Io orable Carl Wa lske i ssistant to the Secretary _ Atomic Energy ' Department of Defense Washington D C_ ·· -• i ··' Dear Dr V aiske ' I am fo cwarding enclosed tln-ee copies · of- 1-e· executive sess - 1· iefo1•e the Joint Gm - r ciittee on-Atomic Energy - -Maich 20 ·1968 o t v ich you and rcpres entatives o'f the Defense D ' part-fn ent tes tified · r concerning the aircraft ccitl e'nt _Gr e lland · · · It would be appreciated if yo- '-'-'puld arr an ge_ - fo l ave ·th - estimony reviewed for accur·acy and fo1· a tor ected _ C cipy to_ 'be tetiifr t · · o fi1e Joint Committee In this• connection plea·se 'f 0 rnish·a··sepa rat - fo·cter setti lg forth any substantive changes · -i· _ - -- ·· - _· in Z - c osures Conies 2-4 of 7 A Transcript 3 20 68 No 9542 '··· 2 JOitr'l-i COM'rIIITTEE ON ATOMIC ENERGY CONGRE$S OF THE lJNITED STATES EXECUTIVE JfEETING NO 90-2 11 -- WEDNESDJ Y_ MJ RCH 20 1968 I·I 'i j i I JOINT COMMffTEE 9N ATOMIC ENER Y CLASSIFIED DOCUMENT NO • ' • - 9ft 2 1 -- The Joint Committee on Atomj c Energy met pursucin'l to call at 10 00 a· m J_n the Commit-tee Room the Capitol Honor•able Clinton P 1 nderson 1 presiding Present were Senator-s Clinton Po Ande s on presiding and Bo1 1i' l1 e B Hic1 enlooper Representatives Melvin P- c-ice Thomas G Morris and John B Young Committee staff pi esent Sohn T Conway Executive Director Edward J Bauaer Deputy Director George F r1urphy Jr Assis- tant- Directo i _ C·apta in Fa ·C Costagliola 9 Staff Consultant and John B Radcliffe Technical Advisor Representatives o the Department of Defense Honorable Carl W Walske Assistant to t' he Secreta1 y Atomic Energy Major General Richard Oa Hunzilcer USJ F 1-lajor General Otto 1 Glasser USAF Colonel Chester Ho·ckett 9 USAF Jr Col Donald Floyd US AF and Lt Commander- W illiain O Ko Rentz USN Representatives of the Atomic Enercy Comntl ssion Honorable James T R mfy rid Honorable Gerald_ F Tape I ' Commissioners Robert E Hollingsworth 1 General Manager Charles-Winter Deputy Director Division of' Military Application Georgt i Kavanagh Assistant D11 ector £or React ors Jack Rosen I Assistant to Commi ss i oner Ramey and Rober-t D o Neill Congressional I I -Relations · Representative of Los·Alamos Sciehtific·Laboratorr 9 Los Alamos Ne1q Mexico Dr Wright Langham Senator Anderson The Comtrdttee will come to order We meet this morning to receive testimony from representa ti ves· of t11e Depart1' lent of Defense ·tn e Air· Force and the 1 EG- _ concerning the af'term ath of the crash of a B-52 bomber carrying four nuclear weapons The crash occur' i ed on January 21 1968 on the iee of North Star Bay seven miles southwest of the j' •unway at Thulei G reenland Th e B-52 was attempting an emergency landing Six of the crew members parachU t ed to safety 'l'lJ e other crew member died As a result o f the crash 1 - here ·were political reper ussions The Air Force 1 mmediately sent experts to recover the weapons and to survey the damage Dr Wright Langham from the Lo s Alamos Sc tentific Labor tory a world i i novrned authr rity ·011 plutonium health hazards was sent to· the site of the crash to p rovide health and sa rety advic D1 Carl Walskeli' f ssistant to the Secretary of Def'ense for P i omic Energy$ went to Copenhag·en to carry on cl J s- cusslons with representatives of t he Danish Government on the political and scientific aspects of the accidento This morning we will receive tes'ciraony from Dr Walske who will di$·cuss the over-all aspects of· this matter we wilL also -hear rr om ·Ma·jor General Ri hard· Hunzil er who _was in charge of the clean-up ope ratio ' f ' llowing ·the accident ano Dr Wright ' Langham 11 who has had intimate exp·erience with both the Palomai es and the Thule accidents Dro Walsl e we are pleased to have you- before us • Will · you begin _ Dra Walslte Mr _Chairman we rre very pleased to have 'tp fs chance to sum up· for you the results to date a ising out of the accidental crash of ·a B 52 near Thule Air Base Greenland$ Which 1 occurred 21 January earlier this year at 1540 hours _ I ST 1 _ ··- My role here is mainly to introduce the two principals who will tell you ot the details of th is acciden t and the follow-up which occurred later I would like to say that over-all starting from what appeared to be a very diffi•cult situation we_ tiave progressed steadily so that in our interna·tlonal relations· with the _Danes · as affected by the situat 1 on at Thule we hav·e made very great progress We have no particular problem about that situation at Thule We have made gr eat progress in the recovery of the weapons parts and we are looking forward ·to JGhe final termination of the operations at the site ip the not too distant ruture Later on maybe you would_ lilce to hear -a little about the discussions that we have had with the Danes like to begin if you are owever I wou d ·wi llingJ with General Richard Hun ziker· 9 who is ·to my right who can t ll you about his _operations at the He was on-site Comi ander there r sponsible to Thule Air Base fJ A 1 'ZJ 2 U General MssarG 1 the Com m-and r' 'in-Chief ·or SAC who 11 in turn w_as respnsiole to_ the Chief of St ff of the· Air Force Gene al -Glasser who is further to my right -was the Chief of Staff of the Air Forcevs responsible· officer with this crash in connection If you _a re willing I will ask G neral Hunziker to begin Senator Anderson · General Hunziker·Gene t-al Hunziker · ehart brie_fing Sir I have chosen to gi V'e this in a I can go just aa ravf or· as slow as you deairev At any time please stop me _if- donvt make my point clear · Th s project was designated Crested·Iceo As Dr Walske ··- -- ---- -y T·sa·ra ····tJie··--·crash happ ned on· tlie ··21st of January at · · ··$ · k -_- · ·· · _ · in __ tl'_1- A- g · ' j m li•• we« ' 'f 1'llate Ai BaN n _ tee tn · · · __ fi rth Star Bay •······ · ' 5 w e •a r ived at OUl O an· 22 January with 10 officers _and eight enlisted person el It was darl5 and remained dark 24 ham a day for several days until Arctic twilight was slowly replaced by daylight · Our objective was t o recover the four Wt' apons in Whal iever ·form we found them to talre care of the decontamination and to clean up the a1 B'a · As the ori-scehe co nmander I- had with me weapons recovery people radiological health contamination control teams a and the suppoii tl tbe t _was nec 'ssary to · - te-··do my· job i I ended up wit l1 565 people and 85 Danes helping ·and· I will say more bout the Danes later on in the briefingo ·we used about·298 000 ·man hours in this project It isn't e01npleted but most of the work is done · To orient you this ia 'nude Air Ba •e thia i the fli1ht path of the airc raft the i mln ct point rniles ·from the-ba-ao almQ•t in line with the runway This is· Saunders Island at this poin t' - and let ·me and ·7l just stop·here for a _minute · witla the imnway ·- ·and let me just stop bere for· a roi nJ1'c e I will not discuss the aircraft at·eident ·I am just going ·to discuss the decontamin tion problem and the recovery problem Senator Anderson Who ·will discu·ss the othe i - General Hunziker Sir it had not been planned·to discuss give you a brle r' summary 11 if you so desi1 'e Senator Anderson I ·would like it Representative Morris Ye_s • General _Hunziker The B-52 some 90 miles from Thule had a fire down in the lower compa rtment· They wei e unable to pu·t out this fire and ab out at -this point pointi_ng to chart the crew members bailed out All survived except one mano They were all · 6 recover-edp and one man landed rtght on the base T'ne airc1 'af''t unattended ma e a slow le ft turn • impacted here at about an angle of 20 to 25 degrees Is that sufficient on the accident Senator Hickenloopero Personally I donit think· it is· anything on the aecident Senato1 Ande1 sonq I was going to say the _same thing General Hunzil er I wasn't prepared to discuss the accident o On the impaet itself -if you would like to Dro· ialske hear ome-about SQ i f t11 #-Dro Langham is planning to analyze tha·t Senator Hickenlooper I thought there were soine _questions in olved I would a·s·sume if the fire was oa i 0t t cnt1soJ they · 11 H- l il would have lost· cont1- ol of the airplanA e - l jt vL Why did they abandon it -unless the plane was out of control and th y had to abandon it because of the _danger of destruction in the air or something1 ·· oeneral- Hunzik_era the fire·had become could not 80 a rrorct •evere _· 0-iE '-- At the t-1 me thev_· l T''l'IT n-- ho air base and du ir attitude wa_s such that tne riS K OI' alit-empt 1 ng ·vu l lUlU m Q J they -1 C ne We can submit a deta1 led account fol the record · - Senator Hickenlooper No that s_ounds reasonable Representative Morris ·_ this at the tWhi te The other-night we were dise ssing House- and the President s·aid the fire was caused by a f_aul Gy switch General Hunziker - No 1r The fire was caused by intense heat o some cushions next to a·heat duct Senator Anderson I thought the purpose this morning· _was to find out about the accident Go ·ahead ' ' fl8lii11T' 7 @Sflfr'L General Hunziker Wo sir I d id not conduct the accident investigation I did take care of the recovery and decontamina l ion of the area r Conway Mr4 Chairman 3 staff knew that_ Dr Wright Langham was in town and tha- t he· and Gene raal Hunzikei ' who had responsibili_ty for the clean up of the accident were meeting with some officials of the Danish Government who wer·e here • It seemed an opportune time for us to ask the General and Dr Langham to come here- f so the General is correct General Hunziker Should I go ahead with my briefing Senato1 - Anderson Yes Gei1 eral Hunziker I am going to pick it up from the impact _P int We arr1ved early in the mo1 'ning with ten officers and eight J enlisted men During the e'utire time w experieiu ed aome ver_y low temperatures Throuchout the period the 56 de ye tha t 'r-wa there the··average equivalent temperature was min s 40 degrees · L r·TJ t-U'-1 •· day it was-110 degrees · We had problem a maintairimi our eqw p ent For example awlaeel fell of _road_grader • ·car'burefors••froze up ·Flashlight batteries went dead in 15 minutes· and even Coleman lanterns lasted only a short timl c before they fro ze up Later we obtained port_able lights and diesel ·generators which enabled us to increas-e Ol lX ef ectiveness short--perio'd of---time-be-t'-OFe they fro ze up ·We dlCi g-e'ti po1ttit1 u e lisl J ts at a la·te 1 eriod of time with- di-ese¼-generaters-- --lfu±a eff'ePeeEi 1 10 an opportunity to ·1ae rease our ef'f'eetir roneae • •• • •• ·-r-• •• •i • • Paramount through all our operations was _our concern for Arctk etorm e which· appeared with little warning · f J t f 7' shifts out on the ice and the third shift v rorking ·to maintain the - ' • ·-·--·- · --------------- 8 equipment We developed a site next -to the impact area area the crash We used plywood for ·a hel tport 'l he ·helicopte1 s couldrz · land due to blowing snow so we had to clear an artaa We poured water over the heliport to maintain the pl 1ood in its position We erected pre-fabricated huts_ flew them out by he1J i 'cop1'ce ana- erected them j_n posit ton We ter dropped them on the · had radio communications · We developed ice ·roads and had the EsldmosJ wbich I wiil speak about late1 ' on build emergency shelters in the form of igloos We finally got some heat and then 1 abouta week after WE were there we were able to build a pre-fabricated '90 by 26· foot building · Our concern 'of course was·the afety of our·peopleo I asked some Arc tic experts to come from the · United States They core drilled the· ic and found that it ·was approximately 2-1 2 _ We were told ·that ·so 000 pounds ·was the maximum cap_abiHty of the 'ic·e to hold·ou1 4 equipment in a particular area One overall consideration was the_ date on which · equipment_ operation on the· ice must stop liM'IMI 1 v Mtl' J tt t 'lfll_i fl 'lift'ltfl ei- 111'11' tl t'IV li i · r nA'IC'· Av cu1lriri'g They cornp ed a t by 5 May the ice would 1•t sluo y and •tart ltreald n1·up They said that their calculated date should be nsid -r d plus r minus ·15 days _so I established· Ma as the completion date - -···- - - _ ·-· - a - Mr Conwayo General raay I interrupt Were -these Arctic experts Americans Wt af I S General ·Hunzilter - They· Army Arctic Research organi- zation On 22- Jan our initial reconnaissance team of four m en went out on dog sleds driven by Eskimos with a Danish guide who could speak Eskimo The crash ar_ea was difficult for the team to locate i ri the darkness however t4 ey did locate the impact point the burn area and various 13mall pieces of aircraft debris which were all contaminated After about ten minutes op eration the team 1 s radiac instruments went dead because of the· severe cold ' -they lasted -a bout-te --minute-s-·-and--therr ·went----dead We dj_dn it see any major· aircraft structure· but· we did of little pieces - see -millions a Senato1·· HiclrnnTooper The aircraft app·arently went through the ice General HunzJ ker No si'r This is the p i ctr Jre of the burn ar a ano impact point The aircraft came at·this angle and impacted here at about an angle of 20degreeaQ give more details on this Dro Langham•will With the force ·of_ the impa_c the fuel went f'o1 ard and n ebrts 1 r 1s ln- this area here P«r1 1't1h · co' ld fuu m r 4 •peak S ki m He controlled the 15 Eskimos and their 150 dogs in transpor tmg _our qu1pment out to the site and -buUding em rgency shelters igloos Many times we used the· Eskimos their· sleds and dogs 24 hours per d y · Sinc_e_ the Eskimos worked £or us and· could no longer hunt to obtain-food for their' dogs it was necessar-y '· to ·provide them with dog ·food £ rom the U s and from the commissary at Thul TheA Arctic gon --n • the only man VG u u VO Cl i ♦ ' H 1 e WWWP2'11¥Vl i 600±0 E 'b go nunt l t g 'ti f inei feed fop thbi P Qogp so I heel i iei _brint sorttt food ttp fI om the UvS ai¼d we fed the dogs fop thc·10·12 day pePioa that we·utilised them During the initial days we did contaminate some of the -Eskd mos heir clothing We took that · clot'tl ing and gave them lo American i- rctj_c gear We Jent to their homes a_nd checked to mal-ce sure their homes weren t contam1natep We ·checked their dogs to see that they weren'_t contaminate_d · p 1 tf he wqnder l service to the Air F I° e the ti c Mr Z1nglersen was awarded the Air Force Exceptional Service Award which was presented to him by Ambassador White during her visit to Thule on 2__5· Feb 1968 oru mltan-t 11 - -I-1 31 _ 0 _ § t i-Gli-al I will break discussion of rec-overy operations into two main parts weapons components and aircraft debris I -m 11· speak more of the weapons components in just a minute l n ·r ft f ' ' 136 barrels and- 11 tanks sized from 10 000 in i4 aircraft engine cane l• 'Me ••• ie8 IHt Ji UI ► iiR 1H l8 1 8 8 Ht Ufiil4 iireRa of on The aeaied con iner1 airdr t debril a_re 1tored and aecured JI'hule Air Base in the· old munitions storage sit whicb _was used to s ____ support B-36's All containers were checked for ·con mination _as· ·they were brought off _the ice and all are fr_ee of exterior contamination This gives you a general pattern of the aircraft debris6 About 2·miles back of the impaet point we found pieces of _the· bomb' ay-k ta e c U · _and· some personle-1 gear sl in just prior to impact6 The aircraft had started o shed J t this _point$ some 2 mil_ea S 1 1t 6 we found _the engimas I personally have tramped this area·many times and·I found p rk o -c ·n ·ection· it the- i inpac · point •n°i 1¾ -pa -_ cf ttw -the end· of the burn area• i lfaunli ·--••an Menin'4_· f 'llt8 i zt r r o 1 ilai w -·· I might mention at this t1m1 ne zero iine Tn1s 1s tne 11 ne - Ii r e y _·-t-e 1-1-r 6 -ri _ e c 1 o N C d A ye d we usea Gutside -g fi - we di d not f'ind any contamination 'f - s f1 -e -Sena-tor Hickenlooper How long is that area· -rf o r-k- General Hunzikerc J About 3 miles sir _ ' __ l i ' Senator Hicken looper Why would the engines be found at the bottom of' the impact ·zone and the skin of the airplane bacl of it General Hunziker • Tne speed of the aircraft was estimated r11e $1Lt -J to be 525' l nots and - portion sta1 ted peeling off of the aircraft ' When it peelecl off the crew 1 s -food loc1ce1 and '··jack t fell out - tlaa- t bombba y· I Senator Hic ooper I am not questioning this · can°t get i t through my mind I just I understand the airplane went almost straight down • General Hunziker No sir It was at a very shallow· angle Senator Hicke nloopera T' oen I mist-ead that diagram earlier one e the ·It lool ed 1ike it went straight doi m l understand • It came in tan angle General Hunziker A shall ow angle Senator Anderson How do you know it was a sha llow angle General Hunziker Dr Langham will explain tl1 at sir_ -and pe has a diagram to show you if you can def er ·that que stiori until late r Senator Hickenlooper · Were you following ·1t_ by radar General Hunziker Yes sir we uk v-e This - inap shows the weapon components and debri·s- · ga n here is the impact point the zero ·line and these dots 1 ndic ate 'Wh e ' ·-tb et naj -r campaunta -ware 'iecov•r ed 1 --r i -r '- '• - - - - - - · -- the secondary case reservoirs pa ts of th _ -- ---- ugh we found one w' ' apon parachute right in the middle of this burn area still in ·its canvas cover and not burned at all I _can't explain this but this is what happened This was found on the ·third day 12 BB9ili i'Ws So -rou can sec frora the point cf impac1 this deb is was blo ivm I mig 1t so we are still searching fci weapons debris This gives you a picture of where we stored ·the air raft debris Hera is the point of· impact -- ·g m 1 les to s h6reline We-· • used this road away from the main parts of the· camp just in qase we had problems with contaminat·ion This is the old Stra tegic Air Command weapon storage area We are using two igloos to store I the aircraft debris They are secure Here is the tank farm that we used to store the crusted snow we picked up f'rom the bu vn area I ·will say m9re about this ' · · - ·• in Just a minute This is the runway We had an on site decontamination center and an on base decontamination center Prior to leaving the site all personnel·went through the on site center where contaminated clothing was removed and· uncontaminated clothing was issued When the ·people arrived on base they were also processed through the on base center where ·very · searching detailed examination· was· made On base showers were available if needed · m 1 ttena were ·taleen euey rrem tihem ' Phey uere g i ren elcan mittens o Whefl 'bhey get ea the baoe they went ·througn a · rery aetai lad · ••••••• 1e11 'io1 iia atieA iaanii1tcil pnocesmaa · E ch tim our vehic lea left the contaminated area they were checked thoroughly for contamination and wer_e decontaminated as much ae t G eMie Vehicles which could not be cleaned at the site w ere process ed through on base facilities where they were steamed and cleaned as necessary ·to remove contami tion mai iaeP When we brought the'''ai·rcraft debri·s in l y trucks in tanks we made sure that th_e outside o 1 tt a ks weren 6 t contaminated • We checked the before they left ' We c_hecked them when they_ rere · in the igloos · c vv fe b- When we removed thef snow J we t 1 ' ha-a · the same procedure ' 13 for the trucl s and tractors We checked to be sure we d tdn' t ffu -blo- lers· have any contaminated snow· on the tractors that pulled We checlred them as the y got off· the ice just before they went 0- v onto the shoreline Going now t o th e methods that we used to search the area to pick up th weapons components and aircraft debris Again to orient you this is TI 1ule and this is the main island --Saunders island It is the biggest island in this local area This is the impact point and zero line We first used explosiv e ordnance disposal p·e·ople ·who ha'Ve knowledge of what the weapons and their c mponents look like · · J ook 1 iv a We S arched this a ea should to snouicter· ·oacM ·ana rorlin to be as·su_red we picked up as mueh as we I ossibly ould tor Since it -w e night or twili aht we used a ahlights which proved unsatisfactory We then used· Col man lanterns· ·Later as -daylig'3 t increased our efficiency increased · Our radiac instruments were used in this area and the area that I showed you pre v•iou·sly to f ei'e if we couldn't pick up some more weapons debris· We went along the shol eline We are ·riow -cF going·to ttl1·1n this g p Just to be sure we ·have pi eked up every- · 'thing· I- migh _say last _night the v pi eked up some· diabri right in thereo We had missed ita As t'ime went on the s ow storms that a e had tended to cove r up the debris We had to design some system to floa t this debris to the tpp so people could picl ·it up we· used ·road· graders with5'cR-llr FI e 4 rs otJ 0 re_ scaly tinge p s -- -litv t e fingers that _t aey- put down on the ice and a l o n g for· mile after mi e · @'I 1 _ hti ·•a ' Uftinl ubrie 111J ·on 1 op· of the Bbow to 'be picked up •lir hand · The • I • scarifying went on l4 hours a day for t'Wo -weeks tt1'l ti1- the area s o m · here had been covered etih Hlib 14 Before we could pick up all of the contaminated debris the first storms moved loose pieces in a northwesterly direction thus enlarging the contaminated area As a result we had to go to Saunders Island -shoulder to shoulder and th en back toward the burn area picking up the debris baol _towaP6 th 0 1 - t iPn 1 0s _Ji i ldng up the 1 ea ea g e' gv h s 'Over ·all of this area we used weasels with l men in the front seat some people sitting on top -- driving back and forth in an area 6 G j miles by 4 miles We a1 'e st111 · doing this --We are still looking to be sux•e _we don t miss an rthing We then put some of our radiac instruments in a helicopter and covered this area to the sho1--eline to see if we could pick iip something f1 'om the air F rt9 _ tli- -im - int to the coast is j miles· - ·-· - _ · - We took ice core samples in the impact area l ftd th-e bla ck burned'bion fe area - core - -·· The green dots represent no contam 1 nation i n· the ice •a »ad ftilo'ia napvesept tho The red dots ·l 'epresent ice cores· in··which contamination was -found 'fb f 15 is vihc1 c ithe ai£erafb aad ·erelee ·tihe ise1 · n1pac1'cd Jn thie area th ft ire raft pacted end shatter ed- the ice into -many large odd shaped and sized blocks which then refro ze into a jumbled· ro-q gh surface • Ice in this a i rea was found to be contaminated To define the contaminated area we·expended-5 00 manhours -taking 198 cottee samples ca xua s au 1111 o u · To add to our fund of knoWleds• and a ee what contaminat on levels were· throughout th a· rea a· samr lirig _progre m· Me und4'rt aken in con junction with Danish Scientists- · Snow samples · bay bottom samples and plankton samples were taken The green dots _represent snow and ice _samples and the yellowl d·ots represent b y bottom water and planktpn samples Senator Anderson What did you firid by examination · General H nziker · Sir a very low level of contamination Dr Wright Langham will address himself· to this subject·o He will 15 SBM'f -tell you the levels that they found ----- -- rfuis line is a canyon we walk d up taking samples ·So _v e cov ered the whole area« Negative in many cases ii moat eeaeo s In most cases very low level of contamination - safe ••- safe o J total of 121 samples · - When we picked up· the atl craft d·ebris sealed and stored it in the storage area and picked ·up and shipped the majority_ of the weapons components we then turned our attenti m to the black burned are • IV --0 U-ttU-t OC J lICU ax eet Tnis· represents about 37 000 gallons of fue J that broke out of he atrcrai't and came d n over the icia_ - burned·_ a J§ for-tn d The crust contained a tremendous arp ount of co Utamination_ and sm ali pieces of aircraft d-ebri_s My ·problem was to remove this crust ·I removed this by mecha nical means -- put it into -V 25 1000 gallon tanks ·'l ae Danish population which_ is us c l to suppo·r't · the · base assisted us -in putting the rusted i e and snow into these· tanks They operated the cranes to lift 1wfdump ·th• 1·1-cubic yard box ea into the tanki ·and in- ddition they gave· us ·_the most necessary upport in maintenance of vehicles '_ - After this removal we had to determine what the c a l -· l evel was_ · r ConwayG Are you going to explain what you did with the material that you rem ved Gene al General Hunziker • Yes sir I can do it right now I have some -p ct'l lres here thougl'l so if you would wait for just a nute I can· explain them - Senator Ander-son You mentioned 65- big tanlrn it Gene1 al Hunz1t er Greenland Yes s5 r These tanks are stil i T' ae problem is how we are going to get them off the o· We are studying this problemo island of Greenlanda Senator Ande l on Must they get _Qff K General ·Hunzi er Yes · Tl1e D _nes have aid they de sil 'e that the· contam i nated material_ be rem_oved from Greenland· subject of an intense study which is going on l 'ight now as to how we are going o remove these tanks and barrels from Greenland i hey have given 1 concu n ---ence to our usi ng the time this summer and if we donut ·get it all off' this summer we can ·use- next summero Senator Anderson - How much worry is there to these tanks General Hunzi¢'er· SirJ'· the -tanks containing the airc aft debris are in t e old munitions storage area with a high fence - ' around it 71 an ' 01 IJ -i led in metal canst · It·is sealed in old oil 14 tanks- welded shut so no one can get at· it Senator Anderson How da·ngerous is -it General Hunzifer · - t f sir B_t siiUil@ - ua t r $ 1 m ·liia fi P • lt ian't danger·ou• at all now ·11 r c••· •• contaminated material ia lle lN in -eontaine- 't whieh MV«- ftO - C ontMn aaeion oa llilllr··••rig_f_ l K -----···· ct - m m - r r · - 'I Mr Conway General haven't yo1 t· returned· some par s of the weapons1·to the United States ·i General Hunziger The weapons as we pi eked them up were· ·removed to the United ·States· We did this on a continuous basis · · To determine the degree that we had removed the cont_am Lnation# we esta-blished a grid systemo This represents the contaminated 17 15 of them area · Wa picl-ced points along each one of these lines 9 and toolt radiac 1 eading·sa We summed up the se readings and converted ·chem in to milli grarns per meter squared · On 1$ Feb1 'uary we got a contamination level -- t h ts heigh-ta · bAA This shows the 'impact point On 1 '1-farch after werremoved all of the contaminated snow and crusted ice our contamination level along this area as you can see was negligible The area- we have not touched is the impact area the area where all the ice is broken·upo We did pick up aircraft debris _ou 1_f• Jo - fe i_ but there is about 10 to 100 ·gallons of fuel trapped in th e ice i I- t t tj vi is is co o tautl n a 4 -- - gave us e contamination leve·1 he1 e G I say that removed·93·percent of the co taminated debris plutonium in the blaclrened ax-ea rnd ·over-all · $3 percent- when ·you t kc i account th e ·bu rne d or d · C@S - a n ice t ini - · · me · 1- d e db tween ·th e unpa c · ·t pom · t ar a _· ' 'ri - uthern tip •made our weapons recovery • We have re- cqvered the aircraft debris put it in cans and brought it to shore It i-s now in a safe ·eo nd'ition to be removed at a -later date and we are thinl ing about using retrograde freighte cargo ships this summer we· have made our radiological· surveys contamination has been c·1eaned ·up 3 perc·ent ·of the We are now in a position to r_emove the camp There ·are a few things left to do We ar cmnt nuing our _surveys We ' Ire going to put some carbonized sand on the _impact area to catch the fuel as ·' Wlulsfpt_ · it melts -this summer uv 1 lc1f f-and sink it to tbe bottom I would like to· show· you s_ome pictures of our operation Senator Hickenlooper How_much fissionable i naterial from the weapons did you recover Is -that- go hpg_t to be discussed · 0 J u Dr fa1sii e I can talk to the point of' the weapons themselves and what has been recovered Senato1 Hickenlooper I donut ·want to inter•fere with your presentationo Senator Anderson It is a good questiond Senator Hi c1cenl opero He is _g Qing to present_ it aftez a while Dr o Walske I will give you a full rundo1 m ·on the weapon recovery per se Senator Hic1cenlooper o It seems to be part of the recovery program l ro Walsl-ce I wlll give you tha-t a fter the General finishes if that is all right Senatol'' Hiol-cenlooper It is as far as· I am concerned Senator lmderson ''' ' You say_ -you have r mov ed How aa·ng rous is it going to be in this a a amount a certain _ General Hun ziker - As it is now _·s1rr I would prefer to· _let the scientists ao dress themselve$ to the point o r- hmiJ dangerous it is Senator Anderson _- Don't you have some idea about it · · General Hunziker Sir 1 wall ed bac c and forth in th t · area with protea_tive clothing It wasn't dangerous at alt Dr Langham Senator that is just like the situation in _ Spain· When· plutonium is around· in your environment there -is a possibility you can get it in you If you get i t in_you there is a possibility it can produce lung or bone cancer -- very· much · like smoking cigarettes In reality plutonium is not dangerous at all unless it is taken· into the body So when you have ·a contaminated accident _like this• you ·· · clean up as much as you can just to· lessen the possibility that 19 SCPFftL someone 'l iv 5 11 get it tn t hem As f ar as I ain concerned_ out on this big cake of' ice 11 which is go-ing to break up and melt into the bay anyway before long there is absolutely no risk whatsoever par- ticula t ly now that we have ·cleaned up 93 percent-of it Mr Conway Is thei e · any danger ·once it sinks into th bay that it will be ingested by t he fish and subsequently eaten by natives in the area who might thus get plutonium within their -bodies Senator Hickenlooper- That is exactly· what is bothering the Danes Dr Langhamo Plutonium doesntt transfer readily thl 'ough the ecological cycle By the time it gets from the plankton and mussels into the seals and the Greenlander who· catches the seal and eats it it has be n-di _ uted He could get ·it into him by a factor of about a million Senator Anderson I rememb er- that we we re on a submarine trip one time and some of us did get a little r 'diation exposure·a This worried us at that time but we learned it wa·s· not signif'i canta But ·wha t do you do about these tanks How do you bury -them How dangero-us was it in the first place Dr Langhamo It is not dangerous so· ong as it is kept ·confined Sena-tor Anderson J rentt you-going to turn it loose Dr Langham You cantt turn it loose really You must ·1ceep it confined just like ie buried the ·soil we brought _from Spaino That is buried-at Savannah River However if it is diltuted · as it would be by go i ng into the ocean$ it gets so l rut 20 Ji9flj qha to be an attitude that radioactive m at er •ials should not be d i s- posed of in the oceans Pe1 sonall J I think it 1s an excellent place to dispose of it Sena tor Ander·son I do too 'tJhere do they want to bury it Dr Lang11am o Th0y are still argµ ing about this I have heard two- or three places mentioned and no one· of the three places·want it particularly but someone will get it Dro Walsl•c_eu AEC has agreed to accept the contaminated aircraft debris and take charge of the disposal of it Mr Ramey c Of course the lev els of radiation in this are much less than the highly radioactive ·waste f'r m_ our react ol ' operations that we have to keep contain d and have kept contained f or 20-25 years more or ·less Mr ·Conway Won rt the snow and ice in these tanks melt and you will then be trans ferring liquids - in the tanlrn General Hunzikero May I address that The question no1rt is just how we ·remove these tanks a Do 'tile fliter them and put the lean if fluent b ci i o the b_ay and_ take ·the empty tanlts These tanks weig approximately 40 onso not going to be easy to move them by·fr ightero· So It 1s· this is a subject on WAich we have to· spend a great·deal· of time ' We dd' have time now The Oanes have agre·ed there is no to et tile etot ff coataminated· material eff • -i i t4 ·ht they therefor · laave to remove it prop•rly at th e leaat co -t Senator Anderson · It will be water -mt it off ··• - 21 @Hl 'f Genert il Hunzi J er The snow and ice in these tanl-cs will meJ t this summer At that time there is an idea just to filter it right from the tanks into the bayo The reason I put the tahks right next to the· shoreline was to be sure we didnut contaminate the base camp and also if we did choose to put i-t into the bay we have easy access to it Repres-entc1 tive Young How did you get the tanl s _up there - General Hunzinker Sir these tanlcs were par·t of an aban- doned system we used at one time for the B-36is TlJ ere were some 1001J 25 000 gallon tanks up there that were·riot being used I -- _-pulled them out of the stanchions-1 brought them down cut them Representative Young Thank you · Do you want to m ove to Dr· Langham now · Senator Anderson I want to know about the ·danger Suppose that were a populated ai ea Could you walk through tnat area of · contamination and still live What is the strength of the ·con- tamination DJ Walske · l n all our c_lean-iip work _at Thule both our w scientists and the Danish scientists agreed wha y e t were doing was just in the nature of ·good housekeeping measures le were not removing an identifiable hazard to people animals marine life · -or plant 11 r It was all in the nature ·of p cautionary- -- super-precautionary if you lilce -- work It· was a lot of tiork fr- nt1 but also it brought us a -lot of good wil¾ the Danes and a lot of understanding on their part Senator Anderson We -had testimony at one time about a test at Jackass Fla·ts I believe they said you had to sta r about 1 cmiles aw nr · ·i i i I open and· pou fed snow int 6 them · Mr Conway ' · ' Should this be 200 miles 400-miles or what • 22 £' ffi lii'' a - Dl Walske As Dr Langham has pointed out plutonium is a problem if you breath it into your lungs and get it stuck in your body but in almosJc any other way th at you come into contact with plutonium it will not be a hazard Mr Conwayo In the ·case of the test at Jackass Flats Senato1-- you had a nuclear _explos on with radia cion _lef t behind Here there was no nuclear explosion - no induced radiation - merely a seatter•ing of the t1eapon material plutonium Senator Anderson tr it has_ no e ffect _ how do you know it is there Dr Wal sl-rn When l1e says it has no ef fect Jl he means of biological importance unless 'you breath i'li into your lungs Plu- tonium has alpha activity associated with l t and some very low gamma ray activity 1 which ·is not a· biological flactot ' as 1 under-- stand -it The alplla activity is not important unless the plutonium is lodged in your lungs Senator Anderson Then what danger is ·there to anyone Dr · 'Walske· In that position it was not really a danger but if it should somehow be come picked up in the atmosphere someone could breathe some of it into their lungs and then it couldJI by extreme in erpretat ton be somethi_ng of a hazard· Senator Anderson • By extreme-in e pretation Dr Walske Yes Senator· Anderson How· about an ordinary common senBe int preta_tion Dr W lske There are politic al factors·in uolved in these things as well as the technical factors I th ink if this-accident had taken place in UGS territory we·would have done much less C Ti CJilP F _ 23 wo1 k I believe that is correct On the· other _hand there was an added factor which was mentioned of this blackened area The 1 eason it vras black was because there was a lot -of fuel thereo The f'uel contained the plutonium pretty well and the plutonium was sort o suspended·in this oil which would float on wa·ter when it ·melted We couldn t t say unequivocally· to the Danes that the oi19 when it melted iri the summer time 'l' wouldn nt go over to the shorecar1 - 1 line and b n plutonium over there So _rather than argue that we ought to wait an d see if the oil got to the shoreline t-Je agreed with the ·Danes that we would pick up this blackened area Th at was the major part of the• clean-µp ·opet at ion· I would like to say a few word about the weapons Senator Apdersono _I am trying to find out i f this isn 1 t dange1 ous s why we worry about it Dr Walskeo I would say Senator Anderson- About ten years ago we had some diffi- · cul ty with a certain· type of reaet o1' that someone said- might cause some trouble I don't thinlt it did Did you worry _about that Di' Tape It ·was under control ·aay by day Se11ator Senator · Anderson It· iooked ·1 1 ke a fishing rod dot-m thereo • Dr Tape_ I ·have also heard stories about our having· to worry about people dropping things in the tanl too Senator Anderson • Did you worry Dr· Tape I h d some wo rries about it I wa snvt part of it but I heard that_ they cont lle it by putting in me hes and screens so they cotildn·rt d1 iop things int·o it· l i I think -the point being made here is tb e following As Dr Walslce pointed out this did not happen on United States territory It happened on foreign territory The Danish scientists were taking the same attitude you have been expressing here What are the concerns with respect to heal th and safety and so on -They agreed that the levels we are talking about here are not concerns in health and safety Sena tor fmde1 'sori o What are· the ·concerns ·nr Tape T'nen the concern is to make sure that the public is tr_uly assured that there is no such concern The way you do this is to do the most reasonable and best job you can in getting ·whatever contamination there is under control G You dn·et it unde1 control by putting i t 1n a place 11here you know where it is· and you have some control over it and y9u donut ·expec t the public then to be exposed It is under controlo We ourselves worry about our own waste dispqsal pr_ograms in this counti y in terms of where will we put it so that we 1-cnow · it 1·s under control Oui people ·are taking -_·care of it and · the public won't accidentally come into-contact with it I think it is quite proper for the Danes to say 11 Loolt one ·of the best ways for you to haye this 1 mder control for all time to come is for you to have it ·1n the United States anQ not in Greenland The ultimate objective is to get· that part of the contamination which we wouid have to control over a long p e riod · or time out of Greenland and back hereo As General Hµnziker says there has to be some work done here as to whether one takes the snow water _combination or whether one ·can process-it in such a way that the bulk of the wat J c·an be dumped back into the bay · and one merely has the contamination t o return- The Danes Bl' 'e quit e agreeable that we talce time to study this and to do the thing which iG the most sensiblei but get the· contamination back cq thi s country They too I think have been most sensible in the sense that even tho ugh the1 e is some contami- nation left in various places you dontt go to the very last bit You use common sense here and let that go I think you will find assurance after you hear Dr Langham tell you about what he has found out -- what his measurements have shown Also the Danes in their• analyses· ·and measurem nts have come up with numbers which are quite comparableo So with your permission I think it might be well to hear from Dr Langham Dr Langhamo I done t want to bother you with too many details of' datao But mariy o_r you manifested· quite a bit of interest· in th e Spanis h situation wh en it occurred This ag in is the same pJ Jt just-differant character and 'different scenery It is an incident where the plutonium in four nu·c1e·az weapons was spread over a territo tha t b'eionged to some other government In this case i it was more fortunate than ·th one in· Spain because in ·spain we had a village o f 200 or 300 people bracketed between the·two nuclear in which the weapon incidents high e x ploeive comp_onents went off and spread the plutonium In this caae we had plutonium from four devices spread over a cal-ce of 1c e out in the bay where· people occasi'onally come to hunt seals catch birds and a few other things that they 11ve off of In otner words ·they a_i e a hunting people They •8 BSRB'J ·mal e ·their living by hunting and not by g1 owing tomatoes as the Spanish did Insofar as I· can see there would not have been any particular hazard at all tq ·the Greenlander and his ecology even if we had done nothing I am sure the plutonium that was in the blackened area -- and it was several pounds of plutonium divided into very fine powder as plutonium oxide that was in· this crusted ar a -- if this had been all owed to break up and go into the bay it would have been dil uted and dropped to the bottom·of the bay except for this oil 01 fuel problem which made some of the plutonium This could have been washed ashore ·and contaminated the clot shore lineu It is not in my opinion vecy likely that there would hav been any hazard had we done nothing but as one ·or the Danes very - aptly put it · 11 Don ·t dump your garbag·e ln someone elsevs doorway and 1 ta_lk away if you get caught n Indeed there is no way 1ou can hide the fac t· ·tha t you had an incident involving nuclear weapons D So our pr blem again was much ·as it· was in Spain of i making the people _in the area feel we had ·made the proper gesture and 2 to assul e as ·Commissioner Tape was saying ·the public - an l the Danish public primarily - that indeed we have i his·under control where in -the future it will not come up to haunt them· when · they least e'xpect ft· fin extensive laboratory effort __ was put int o gettin g· ·General Hunzi ker technical support so he would know where the plutonium was _how much was there and the best· way of· going about recovering it Of course sooner or later we have to face the question of the best· way to get it out of Greenland 27 -iD6fb3i ' Senator Anderson · I th inl-c at one time they were afraid of a nt1clear ship tl1at iiar l goir1g to Sv1ea en - Dr Le ngham In f'act to Denmart Senator Anderson • You and I know there was no real hazard at all How much of th ts is just pla5 n imagi11at ion and how much· is real hazard Dr Langham There is no doubt but that radiation and radioactive substances can be _d ngerous including the x-ray machine if it is- not under control Of course in bringing a nuclear ship into harbor the -things Is you 1 • ror1 f about are this a dangerous device· and do they r_eally have it under control The nuclear ship and our·nuclear submar tnes 11 ave had ·trouble in ·many places A lot··of this is i nagination a nd apprehens i on 'Itt e same thing applies to reactor sites q You fincf ' all kinds• of problems involved wi th t h e· people in the local area because they know radiation can be dangerou o I am sure 11 Senat·o1 that · the developµient and use of electric i ty went th1 ough the same process of·evolutio n and this is just part of' it In the technicat·sense it became rather important to de- termine the attitude of the airplane as it hit the ice the reason ' being ·we Jere wanting to convince the Da ish people that most -of ' ' the plutonium was on the sur face and not underneath tha t very ·' li ttle of the plane debris went through -the ice and contaminated· the bottom of the bay and would be lying -there for the next hundred years with plutonium 1 it So a rather extensive study was m 5de by means- of the photographs blown up to scaJ e ·and a little model airplane which showed-this airplane came in in a left bank with the left wing 60 degrees low and· the nose 15 degrees do·wn I t w as 11 ' l' atb er ·flat - - glancing angle with one wing low _ ----· 28 i H Clit i' @ You can just expla ln 'th i s beaut5 fullJ' 'TI 1 e rnm -1- s on the ice can only ·oe e cpla lned provided you as·sume that the· plane did indeed come in about 15 degrees nose do -m with its left wi g 60 deg1 'ees low • It just lines up beautifully- that way When a p_lan% tra- velling 600 or more miles an hour hits something ·t hat has the inertia of three root th tcl ice and three-fourths the momentum of the wreclrnge and everything is in the forward dil ect i on and r only one fourth downward it ·can only just splatter along ·-H1e_ su1 face That ts lndeed· what· happened In other words tnere tiAU e _ 225 000 pounds of jet fuel l' four boml s in a 183 000 pound airc·raft hitting somet hing as hard as ice at 600 miles an houro Th ls has a lot of momentum When it did the oil _just spread down the iceo ·The weapons wen'C off when the plane cru shed back to the wing ·spars because that is when the gr_ea'c e st G-forc_e would be exerted on -'che weapon When the plane had crushed to that len·gth the four weapons went off in this great mass of wre·ckage Mr Ramey You mean the high explosiye Dra Langham Yes$ thie high explosive component of the weapon · Tht Y are always sensitive about whether you are talking ahout nuclear expl osives or high expJ osive s Lau_ghter And incidentally a search was made to see if there had been _any ·nuclear 1e·riticalitj · and there was none This is tp e first thing of course that one sho l _do in an _ccident f' this type So we were only c ncerned•with the plutonium contamination When the nuclear high explosive components went off11 this just helped propel this wreckage oil and_flutonium which was blown into the oil down the ice 29 Anal rses showed t here was of '------ ----'--------'-- ------'-- _ _____ ____ I plutonium in this blacl- ened crust· When Gene al Hunztkerg s teams did surveys outside of this blackened crust$ it soon became obvious that 99 percent of the plutonium that was spread· on the surf ce _ still there on the surface -- could be picked up if this blackened crust was piclced up and put into tanks In other words 99 per- cent of the plutonium was contained in that area lf we had picked up _100 pe' 'cen1G l' then we ·11'10uld have 99 percent of vihat is there He has gotten 93 percentv Sena tor 1 nderson Th at is a ve_ry small amount lef't Dr Langham Yes i'G is a very small amount_ In this crushed ice area where- he ·showed· the diagram of i HiI iJ l § 2 §Sta -the core sample we f i gure th re is about 1 bR1 b _3_ l _ f • use §2 rg_· Jc1 t ··· · FREl iJ • •· · 1• iJ r r · · 1 ra nr and it was all th e way through the thickness of the iceo The ice is three· fe t thick so if one ·tried· to·gei i this plutonlurn he would have to dig·up ail or this ice to a depth of three feet whi ch w9uld be a momentous job So we were ln hopes the Danes would agree to let us leav·e that behind and indeed they have provided we would put this carbonized sand on top of it because the sun hitting the carbonized sand will increase· the t mperature and this will melt· first and fal into the bay · Not only that but· this carbon sand will absorb what oil is i · · it and sandr'be1ng heavy enough will -sink to the bottom and therefo e it will not wash over tp e ·bay Senator Hickenlooper How deep is the wate1 there General Hunziker About 621 feet Dr Langhama I11 other ' Ords we have accounted for aboµ t ' b77 17 b - 3 - - - 42 v ± • use §2162 ah of the plutonium total inve_ntory in the weaponQ The RD 1 il - CRET rest went up in the cloud wh tch rose t o 2L oo feet and of course 11 dissipated with the cloud and fell out graduall r o ver many· thousands and thousands of square miles which of course was over Baffin Bay where this land mass is Some of the plutonium stuck to the aiI plane parts which General Hunzil-cer already has in the cans and we 1ill never lmow how much is on the aircraft parts We wi 11 the weapons at least was somewhere on the surface of the ground or in the crushed ice and the rest is dispersed in ways that ·we would never find anywayo I would l_il-rn to reiterate again it is my feeling that nq hazard particularly was imposed on the Greenlariders op·on·their ·ecology If you have to ·have such an accident this is a fortunate place to have ·it people live in a tilderne ss of that kind ·where very few There are oniy 60 or so Gret nlande-rs who· 11 ve in · this immediate area a·na never more than 200· parade throµg't this whqle section of the country hunting· seals You··w111 remember t ri Spain we had 200 people growing tomatoes between two of these thing'so I am sure Mr Tc pe made a good cas for why one goes to somewhat ridiculous lengths ·1n my· opinion from the common· sense point of view as you w ere sayj_ng_ to clean up these things Remember it' wasnJt our country and the other fellow has something t·o say about what y_ou do with the mess you have c·reated In this case we have done a very fine job already and the only ques-tion 11 as -far as I can see that remains is how one gets this back to the Un1ted States and·when you do who· can you find who will take it In other · w ords$ General Hmi z tke i flew plane loads of smnpJ es ·to us People in Dr Tape Would you say n word about th- ·meat mrement s the of results and c ompa1 ee to what Wright•s people hav done · Dr Langham Of course we have rather elaborate faci1 i ties in the various ft EC nstallations in this country to do ·this type of analysiso The· Danes have had very lit cle expe1 ience with plu- tonium l 'hey wanted certa ln samples ·and JI o f course we had to give them samples b_ec_a-use the f had a perfect rJi ght to h ave them ii the meeting ·ye st erday -and the da r before ·t-hey seenied in many instances to w a nt to compa i' 'e theix• i' esults w p h ours so they could· see how good they really w re It was amazing how good the ag1--eem ent was when I am sµre they ·did not have at their disposal the facilities we had They had· analyzed fo1 many of' the things we had an d their results were quite in agreement Their estimate of the limit ·of error was much broader but if you took an average of the numbers it is amazing how closely they check which means you have to be honest with them and tell them how much is here and how much is there because_ they are perfectly capable of finding it out for them_selves as they have demonstrated Senator Hickenlooper Did 1ou see any evidence of investigative act 1 vity· by Russian submarines under the ice or surveillance by airplanes· ·over the sitE J ·at all Gener al Hunzil er No sir we didn tQ Senator Andersona Congressman Price Representative PriceQ No questions Senator J 1tderson 4 Congressman Mor1 is• Representative Morris I have no questions M Chairman but I want to commend this group on· the excellent job_ they apparently ·have doneo It is perfec·t1y clear i I • t think that a great deal of the care and _e ct t a preca utiqns that were taken were -not· so much because of an actual hazard- -but because of_ the ·political situation that might exist i1ith respect t o· our relations with another ccmntry It se·ems to me _you ha ve done an excellent job bo th respect to cleanin g up and handling -the political imp11caticms · You know ignorance is one of the greatest· evils i1e have Sometimes I think -igno vp n_ce and fear of the unknown go together · · and that· we 'may have -held some of this information t oo closely It is like playing a poker hand If you keep a little bit too close you may· _not win as_ much money as if you played another way I read an article in a paper ·the ·other day_- I donit rememoer which i t was -- that some of o r nuclear subraarin s had been in certain harbors and·some character said that theJ ' e was a change atceptance seems to mes i t is hold tng ·up the zat ion tt ts The qu i cke e 1 re allajr this f'eal°' of this mknown_ ev sn -chougl'l 1tnown to us the qu lcker i re can use it to help man1cl i ld in many o·ther ·wairs We can use nuclear· energy -to Jtelp ·r realize ·ev·ery·th tng you diq here had to be done and I ag1 'ee 100 perc·ent that you •had to do it I think you l ave done an excellent ·job but I hope in add t ticn ther e ma_y be some way to get It· ls i11u h like over• eating • You ·can if you wan t to be a hog kill you rseJ f by eating thJs · sort of information ·to t h e publ i c • too much food I -guess drink tng_ li'quo1 ti o - · Senator Anderson You go too far there· Laughter Representat J ve _Morr is In smoJr ing cigarett es and in most anythingo I dontt know·l'low you do 1 t b1 1t there may·be something · Representative Pr ice Of course 11 we have been tr-yi ng ac- tually for 25 years t o educate the publico We release stories vie release reports As a matter of fact the story you are talking about eame from the Joint Comm1 ttee printed hearings on -'che nuc J_ear propul- sion programj which were completed in February is has been ·available for some time It is not in f'ine print either It · i s one of the lead articles in the Appendix and in full size print so it is easy to read It has had presa coverage I believe we have done everything possible to· lay things out before the public It is the same wit h nuclear reactors They still think ·they are going to explode It is just a very difficult matter It isn t be ause there has -been ny reluctance to -put out the information It has be en put out many many times Mr Q Ramey Mr Chairman iri talking to 1 he Danes and their Public Heal th people who have been_ in t_own and I saw some of them yesterday I asked if they were_ familiar with the Joint Committe Hear ings on Fall-out and ·Radiation Standards They· said tb at · tbis was one of their text -books ·They used those originally in ·low · · level radia tion effec-t·s You will remember Dr Langham testified in those original hearinga in 1957 as well as subsequently Senator Anderson Are there any further questions Senat9 r Hickenlooper I have none but l want to say I think you did almost a sup rh man job therea I think it was well done I realize the benefits of bending over backwards to assu re our hosts that we are not going to contaminate their population nor their food supply a_nd that there 1·s no I think i t is worth the -extra e pense danger As a matter o-f fact· 35 General Glasr er May I add a comment Senator We seem to have st- essed the satisfaction of the Danes or over-sti essed the satisfaction of the Danes We c·ouldn v t have asked for a more cooperative group to worlc with than the Danes As a matte·r of fact tl1 ey we1 e joining us and sayi ng$ nwe nee to con- vince the less friendly count1 ie s n It was not the Danish people we had to convince ·we were doing right It was some of the othe i •s Throughout the incideht there were articles coming out of much less friendly nations sailing what a gret 1t hazal d we had- c reat ed in _scai teriri g· this stuff around The Danes were simply joining us and ·saying nif we __ben d over back•r wards to do a good job- this will _blunt the pr0paganda activities· of these other ·people n That was the reason for doing it It was not fo r the satisfact ton of the Danish Gover-nment tself They were willing t o ·_leave ·1t there Dr Walslce I want to second what ·-General Glasser has said Mr Chairman • Flay I read a sentence to you- from the press ri e that was jointly agreed to by the American -and ··Danish scientists who rev iewed the situation in· meetings· in· Copenhagen· on ··the 15th ' and 16th of Eabruary Reading ' This· wa_s a jointly agreed position It was agreed·· that -·under present conditions ·the ··radioactivity spread in the area is not a-hazard to peoplri or biological' species nor is any hazard orese n in the future$• Nevertheless an effort will be made to removE the main par_t of the· radioactivity which is on the -ice· n Then gain at· the same meeting_ we had lihat we call a ngentlemenvs understanding of what would be done After describing t removal of the blackened area-· from the ic th l s statement was jointly agreed with the Danish scientists and I 1 oi - of·ic a-s · ' an d i' saiui 11 l 1 1 1 s eps of v Fi ❖·he v -ror1 ram a e to be best Y efforts to clean up in a houselceeping sense not necessar•y steps · • h azai d ll to remove a d emonE 'i ra ea f 1 er ' So what Gene1 a1 Q 1 ee-ser said abou·t t11e Danish scientists and· officials being reasonable I think l s absolutely tru e • They· realized they· had a public relations p r·'oblem and a good jop should ba done in cleaning up what could be cleaned up · Senator Hicltenlooper Mr Chairman • I apparently mis- stated my complim ent s here I think this •-information about the Danes should· Qave been presented as· part of the presentation All the evidence I hea·rd was that we were doing this- for the ·Danes I think this is ·wonderful to ltnow • I thinlt it should be part of the record and we should know it_ Senator Andersona I concur Senator HickenlooperQ I was under the imppession we were doing this for the Dane s based upon the testimony and the $atements ' ' here I am glad to knqw the Da nes are coopera·ting in allaying the fears of other nations who were ·critical Representative Young • I·would like to add my commendation to those that have already been expre·ssed on· the very fine job that has been done I am a li tt le bit curious • Do you have_ -any figures on ·how -much it cos ··· -- not the loss of the ai-rcraft but the clean-up· process General Glasser Not at the present tim Representative Young I was just curious I dontt--think·it is mportant at all Tklank you l Jr Chairman -- Jl l'-'Ir Corn-va r There ts one point J m igrrt make in following up on Congressu a n Morr l s' comment Dr LfH' ham may x•ecall th at ctfter c Leanlng up a·t Palomaris i here was ·c ne poss lbLlit y that some who p-arti ipat ed in- clean l ng up chat· area may have become contamlnated s I recall_ thei-•e was l Spard sh official I ·wonder· whf the-r that has been pu 'c_ to r·es 'cp and whethe1 ' you have conducted ' any bio -analys ls of those participati rig ln th ts clean ' 'up so th ere would be n o question tn their· m lnds about b1 cQming contamihat ed Dr • Langham There ha bGen 1cca1 moni tol ing a 11 the t tme The peopJ e who are working in the area get vex y c Jreful You will remember the p1 ohlem tn 3pain car ie about ii'hen they went out to the contaminated area and trled t o co J ect urine spec i- menss and got them contaminated We are not making that llistake this time The thing to do is to watch carei'ully with moni·toring equipment Then _whex these people are· released fx·om ·this as ign- ment they will get a careful u i •·inalysis In fact I think t11 e program is· set up al1 ady_ to see that these people when the opera 'ii tion is over get treatraent - primarily to r lieve their own mindso 1 iu e ' j•-- General Hunzikero We have a -tt 1 c arh t lab at J ae e¼te- We are getting ur1n lyse_s -nasal swabs Jand the necessary so1 t o-f things• to follow on wii h a program After these people go home they will f J have a continuat i on of nalysis jus be sure _we hav·en t lJlqde an error Mr _Conway Am I correct that in• the Palomaris situation follow-up examinations have indicated no one who participated in • the clean-up or lived in the area received what might be considered a heav r dose of radi ai- lon Dro Langham Tb at is right We set the Spanial1 up wi·th a rather compr ehensive follow-up program and they are doin g · very well and finding essentially negative results Sena tor lh1de-rson Are there further questions If not thanl you all very mueh for cqmi ng here3 Whereupon at 11 30 a m che meeting was adjourned_